I have noticed a lot of information in recent years from the NSAA regarding “respecting the ref”. I would say in large part no one is listening. The fan behavior at the Girls State Basketball Tournament was terrible, Parents and fans screaming on every call, as if they have a better view, most don’t understand the game to begin with. The worst fan behavior that I witnessed was Skutt Catholic. I could not believe what I was witnessing. There is already a shortage of officials and I can’t imagine the problem getting better.
Fan Behavior
- Thread starter Big Red Thoughts
- Start date
I totally agree with the unbelievable bad fan behavior. I usually broadcast games on the radio but this weekend I just went as a spectator to watch the girls state tournament. The comments made by parents and students was appalling to me. I also saw more people thrown out of gyms this year than I ever have. The whole respect the ref situation is getting worse not better.
I also witnessed this behavior. And particularly the Skutt fans on Saturday. Walking down to the bottom row to scream and refs. What looked like an 8th grade boy screaming after every call. The worst was at the end when it looked like a middle age man telling a Sr citizen to shut the f up multiple times. The same 8th grade boy yelling at a gentleman while sitting with his two young daughters. I wonder where administration is. But I'm guessing when these parents with their money control your fate, you are reluctant to say anything. Regardless it was really sad to witness with such great basketball. Ladwig and Prince are amazing players. Two great teams marred by the actions of "adults"!
I thought the refs were pretty good to skutt as well…. Called basically zero body fouls on them the whole game
I think we would all be surprised how little weight this actually holds in todays society. Unfortunate, and I do not know what the answer is.
It’s pretty simple solution. Escort the fan out the door the first time. If it happens again they can’t attend anymore events
The game has kind of evolved to the point that defense on the ball is not allowed, and defense away from the ball is the wild west.
I noticed something in the Wynot vs Overland game (watching on TV) that I was quite impressed with. There were several no calls where contact had no bearing on the end result. Minor body on body contact after the shot was off as an example. I was really happy to see that. I have always felt that officials should judge incidental contact on a case by case basis, and if the shot gets out clean and there is not risk of injury then let it go.
Big Red Thoughts kinda nailed it with the opening message. Most fans don't understand the game to begin with.
I noticed something in the Wynot vs Overland game (watching on TV) that I was quite impressed with. There were several no calls where contact had no bearing on the end result. Minor body on body contact after the shot was off as an example. I was really happy to see that. I have always felt that officials should judge incidental contact on a case by case basis, and if the shot gets out clean and there is not risk of injury then let it go.
Big Red Thoughts kinda nailed it with the opening message. Most fans don't understand the game to begin with.
Most refs do a good job. Most fans are idiots. Most but not all in both circumstances…
Many times the fans get upset over a call or non-call and they are wrong. Go back and watch the tape (easy to do when you are the one recording the game). I often have nearby fans ask me to replay plays for them between quarters or during timeouts.
I would say roughly 75% of the time, the fans are wrong.
That means maybe 25% of the time, the fans were "right" and the refs were "wrong" (hard to say "wrong" when so many calls are one opinion vs another and could go either way).
Some refs are good. Some are ok. Some suck. Some are biased. Some crews have 4 to ref a tournament and a different one of them sits out each game that taunts the fans and gets them riled up (very immature).
I know and work with 2 refs aged 43-46 (reffed for 8-12 years each) (I don't ref, but I talk to them throughout the season, one after most games he refs). I like to be immature sometimes and make gifs of some of the really bad calls some refs make. Some are sooo bad and consistently bad, even after reffing for 30+ years.
Refs are human and they make mistakes. No one can deny that. I respect refs more that will allow another ref to correct a mistake they made. Many have huge egos and will not admit they make mistakes.
Just because some refs suck, doesn't mean that all refs suck. I hate refs that ref games for schools they work for, especially when they are friends with the kids in person and on social media.
Some fans really suck (I often wish those fans would sit further away from me), but that doesn't mean all fans are idiots and don't understand the game.
One thing I will say is that many fans are parents and have been watching 50+ games a season for 5+ years and actually do understand basketball. IMO, the biggest issue is parental-bias goggles.
I would say roughly 75% of the time, the fans are wrong.
That means maybe 25% of the time, the fans were "right" and the refs were "wrong" (hard to say "wrong" when so many calls are one opinion vs another and could go either way).
Some refs are good. Some are ok. Some suck. Some are biased. Some crews have 4 to ref a tournament and a different one of them sits out each game that taunts the fans and gets them riled up (very immature).
I know and work with 2 refs aged 43-46 (reffed for 8-12 years each) (I don't ref, but I talk to them throughout the season, one after most games he refs). I like to be immature sometimes and make gifs of some of the really bad calls some refs make. Some are sooo bad and consistently bad, even after reffing for 30+ years.
Refs are human and they make mistakes. No one can deny that. I respect refs more that will allow another ref to correct a mistake they made. Many have huge egos and will not admit they make mistakes.
Just because some refs suck, doesn't mean that all refs suck. I hate refs that ref games for schools they work for, especially when they are friends with the kids in person and on social media.
Some fans really suck (I often wish those fans would sit further away from me), but that doesn't mean all fans are idiots and don't understand the game.
One thing I will say is that many fans are parents and have been watching 50+ games a season for 5+ years and actually do understand basketball. IMO, the biggest issue is parental-bias goggles.
Last edited:
I officiate and I will add:
1) Yes officials make mistakes....they are human
2) Officials sometimes simply don't see infractions. This can be for a variety of reasons. It is entirely possible that the official was shielded by other players on the floor (remember they have a different angle than the fans in the stands.) Also, each official does have a specific area of the court they are responsible for watching for.....while they can make a call outside of their "coverage area" they can also be so focused on their specific area that they trust their partner(s) will make the call in their respective areas (which they are supposed to).....so it is entirely possible an official does not see something across the court because they aren't supposed to be watching that part of the floor to begin with.
3) I would venture that 85+ percent of fans know most of the rules of the game, but have no clue how to actually apply them.
Ok, off subject but it applies. When I watch Nebraska Men's games, and see how Tominaga gets literally mauled, held, 2 hand grabbed, pushed, etc., how is it possible that no official sees it? Is it possible that officials don't see these as holds or infractions? Is holding an off ball player legal? I know you aren't a B1G official and assume you're not a mind reader 😂. However you have the right perspective.
This is a huge part of it.
What fans who complain about refs all the time don't get is, if we keep losing refs at an alarming rate...how will the games be played without officials? It's wild to me how some fans get so hot about a foul in the first quarter when the game is 10-6. It doesn't make the players more motivated to play better when they hear their Mom or Dad screaming at officials all game. It doesn't help the coaches coach better.
Coaches need to be examples for their players. When coaches make faces or talk back to officials, it's never a good look. I get pulling a ref aside in a timeout and talking to him/her, but to be barking 30 seconds after the foul has been made, it's insane. When a coach acts that way, a kid will act that way. IMO, it's completely unacceptable for a player to talk to a ref. I can't stand it when a player throws his/her palms up. That doesn't make the foul go away. Own it, move on.
I have an idea that I think most people will take as sarcasm. It isn't sarcasm. Ticketing is all done online now. When people buy their tickets they should have to type the phrase "over the back is not a foul". It can take the place of the robot test where you have to click all of the bicycles or whatever else to prove you are a human. Other expressions they could have "fans" type
1- Over the back is not a foul
2- There is no such thing as a reaching foul
3- Fouls don't have to be even
*Edited to add suggestions from this thread
1- Over the back is not a foul
2- There is no such thing as a reaching foul
3- Fouls don't have to be even
*Edited to add suggestions from this thread
Last edited:
Completely agree. There are times when coaches need to speak their mind...... say what needs to be said, and move on though. Don't need to be complaining about the same call for half a quarter.
That said, when adults(fans or coaches) start complaining, that just gives the players something to start complaining about... I've seen it happen first hand. A team is completely kicking somebody's rear-end, the coaches start complaining about calls while still kicking butt, then the players follow suit and lose focus..... thus letting the other team get momentum and even the playing field.
And the fouls don't have to be even.
I can't believe the number of TV Announcers that still say "Over the back" or "Reach". Perhaps that is some of the reason that casual fans still think those fouls exist.
I have no knowledge of the rules differences between NFHS and NCAA basketball......but a hold is still a hold and should be called.
#3 gets me a lot. These officials are all neutral arbiters. They are not out to "get one team". Sometimes one team simply commits more fouls than the other team......and sometimes that disparity is massive.
If not for one crew that I see fairly often, I would agree.
We have a local crew, which I mentioned above, where one of the officials has his own company and works at several local schools, but at one particular school that he works at, he is friends with the players, interacts with them on social media, buys tickets to watch their games when he is not reffing, etc.
That team is usually not good, but when he refs them, the fouls are lopsided, in favor of that team. When "reaching" across a dribblers body, a player makes contact with the dribbler and knocks her down to the floor, several times a game, yet no foul is called.
When the other team does this (I have watched him red them against other teams and it's the same way), a foul is called. I have sat with one of my friends that refs varsity high school games and he can't believe what he sees.
He agrees. Very biased reffing for that team. It's crazy that when the same ref (and crew) refs other teams, they are actually very good refs. That's what drives me crazy. It should never feel as if a ref is "helping" one team or the other.
Call the game fair for both teams. If something is a foul on one side of the court, it had better be a foul on the other side of the court.
IMO, this crew, (well, the one ref in the crew I guess) shouldn't be allowed to ref games for schools he works for. Our AD will not hire the local refs that have either graduated from our school or have had kids in our school system.
I get it. We have an extreme lack of refs (due to not just fans being a-holes), but it's not fair to the teams that have to deal with this biased reffing.
Having reffed elementary basketball and coached, I understand how difficult it can be to see everything that happens on the court, so I tend to be the guy that quiets down our crowd when they get upset over a call that was actually a correct call, although I admit that I am just as guilty at times at getting upset at the refs on the heat of the moment.
The refs don't deserve that sort of treatment and I 99% agree with every poster in this thread and their comments. I am glad the refs are getting more money per game now than they were getting 10-20 years ago. They deserve good pay for what they have to deal with.
I wish high school coaches would help get their players more involved with reffing the younger students (elementary teams have many games and tournaments) so these kids would possibly feel comfortable taking on a reffing position when they get older. They need to start somewhere.
I am a PA announcer for a local high school and some of the stuff I hear fans yell is just amazing. It’s really kind of embarrassing that it has gotten so bad that the NSAA has to beg to get people to stop. I honestly don’t blame the refs sometimes. They are human.
Went to the Elm Creek vs Maywood-Hayes Center game. Being on the Elm Creek side was embarrassing. Fans complained about every call. It was like they thought their boys couldn't possibly have had a single foul or turnover.
Granted it was a vocal minority, but still, way too many.
Granted it was a vocal minority, but still, way too many.
I could definitely jump on Skutt with everyone else because I've witnessed some pretty appalling crap at baseball games. BUT, I think part of the problem is when we delude ourselves into thinking that any school is worse/better than others. I mean, sure, some ARE worse. But we all have our own share of morons that are creating this environment. There are a lot of decent people at games but it's the "minority of dipshits" that ruin it for everyone else.
Official in the Ainsworth vs. DCS game called one of the bravest fouls I've ever seen in High School basketball. There is a notion that an over the back call needs to be called on the player behind a boxing out rebounder, but that's not accurate.
If player A is behind Player B, and Player A out leaps, out hustles, and grabs a rebound before making any contact with Player B, that is NOT a foul. But too many High School fans lose their mind over that type of play.
An Ainsworth player out jumped the DCS player, had control the ball, and the DCS player wrestled him over his own shoulder pulling him onto the ground. The DCS fans threw a conniption fit.
But the correct call was made. It was a very clear foul on the DCS player upon the replay. But those fans flipped out. I commend that official for making such a bold call. I bet I saw that 100 times during the season and it was only called correctly 5 times.
If we are being honest, Big Ten fans don't even understand that call.
If player A is behind Player B, and Player A out leaps, out hustles, and grabs a rebound before making any contact with Player B, that is NOT a foul. But too many High School fans lose their mind over that type of play.
An Ainsworth player out jumped the DCS player, had control the ball, and the DCS player wrestled him over his own shoulder pulling him onto the ground. The DCS fans threw a conniption fit.
But the correct call was made. It was a very clear foul on the DCS player upon the replay. But those fans flipped out. I commend that official for making such a bold call. I bet I saw that 100 times during the season and it was only called correctly 5 times.
If we are being honest, Big Ten fans don't even understand that call.
To be fair, they are the group of fans who reside closest to Missouri. When you live that close to Missouri, your behavior begins to trickle down into a layer of white trash that none of us mainland Nebraskans can fathom. Hell, Falls City has been gone for years.
Johnson-Brock fans will be a close second.
The DCS fans are normally pretty damn rowdy and loud. I hate going to their place to play.
Tough to put up with everything they do, from students on their stage to a section of their fans. Great home court advantage for them.
No jump ball?? Sounds like they both had possession of the ball, I didn't see it so serious question...I've seen some pretty quick jump ball whistles.
Haha. I for one love the "call it both ways". And its usually when a really good aggressive team is getting to the rim a lot. The other team is lazy and won't play defense so they reach and get called for it.
What type of foul did the DCS player commit?
If the DCS player was able to flip a kid over his shoulders while keeping a grip on the ball, shouldn't it have been a jump ball?