A look at Class D1 Playoff with 16 teams.

[northeastNebraska]

Here is what Class D1 would look like if it were a 16 team playoff with 10 district champs. If you still did an East-West split this is how it would look like.

EAST:
#1 Palmer*
#8 Tri County

#4 Lourdes*
#5 Heartland*

#3 Creighton*
#6 East Butler

#2 GACC*
#7 Howells-Dodge*

WEST:
#1 Perkins County*
#8 Alma

#4 Dundy County
#5 South Loup

#3 CWCE*
#6 Medicine Valley*

#4 Elm Creek*
#5 Hemingford

 

[northeastNebraska]

If there wasn't an East/West split.

#1 Palmer*
#16 Tri County

#8 Dundy County
#9 South Loup

#5 Creighton*
#12 Hemingford

#4 Elm Creek*
#13 Alma

#3 GACC*
#14 East Butler

#6 CWCE*
#11 Heartland*

#7 Lourdes*
#10 Medicine Valley*

#2 Perkins County*
#15 Howells-Dodge*

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

If there wasn't an East/West split.

#1 Palmer*
#16 Tri County

#8 Dundy County
#9 South Loup

#5 Creighton*
#12 Hemingford

#4 Elm Creek*
#13 Alma

#3 GACC*
#14 East Butler

#6 CWCE*
#11 Heartland*

#7 Lourdes*
#10 Medicine Valley*

#2 Perkins County*
#15 Howells-Dodge*

Either way, that is plenty of teams, The teams that can contend for the title are included and most of the first round games are not worth the travel time.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Either way, that is plenty of teams, The teams that can contend for the title are included and most of the first round games are not worth the travel time.

Totally agree.

 

[wsc-oline]

Burwell , who lost to 8-0 Palmer and 8-0 CWCE would not be in the playoffs.....

 

[northeastNebraska]

Burwell , who lost to 8-0 Palmer and 8-0 CWCE would not be in the playoffs.....

I noticed that, which sucks but they would be the only 6-2 team left out. Only lost to Palmer by 4. But they had four teams finish 2-6 , one team finish 0-8 on their schedule and the other one was 5-3.

 

[huskerfan1414]

I noticed that, which sucks but they would be the only 6-2 team left out. Only lost to Palmer by 4. But they had four teams finish 2-6 , one team finish 0-8 on their schedule and the other one was 5-3.

It's proof that 16 is too few in D-1, PERIOD. Especially considering all the inelgible teams factoring in on some losses and the NSAA handling all the scheduling.
So it works out for most teams this year, but Burwell this year and the potential for 7-1 or 6-2 teams do be left out is too big of a risk, remember these kids only get one senior season, it only takes one year where it screws somebody to be too many.
24 would be the correct amount, in my opinion, but for some reason people are afraid of bye weeks. D-1 should all start week 0, playoffs start during week 9. By the time the other classes start playoffs they are down to 16 teams like everyone else and can play on Fridays. No 7-1 or 6-2 teams would ever be out. 2 and 3 win teams would rarely if ever make it in. It's too perfect.

 

[hailvictors2]

I've said this several times before and I will say it again.... 2 things need to change if D1/D2 go to a 16 team bracket.
1- The schools need to have control over the scheduling process. Burwell had NOTHING to do with their schedule. You can't penalize them for that.
2- Schools that play one of the opt down schools (Ravenna, Ainsworth, etc....) need to get rewarded with the 2 extra bonus points that other teams are rewarded with for playing up a class. As an example, if a C2 school plays a C1 school they are given 2 bonus points for doing that, win or lose. This should still apply for D2 or D1 schools playing a C2 school that opted down to 8 man. The fact they opted down doesn't eliminate the fact they have a higher enrollment.

 

[sports10]

I noticed that, which sucks but they would be the only 6-2 team left out. Only lost to Palmer by 4. But they had four teams finish 2-6 , one team finish 0-8 on their schedule and the other one was 5-3.

That is not Burwell's fault. The NSAA sets their schedule.

 

[AllIseeisgreen]

Would it be wrong to go to a 24 team playoff and give the top seeds a bye? No reason to have a 2-6 team in the playoffs. Do they really even want to play? I don't think it is a reward to make the playoffs at 2-6.

 

[hailvictors2]

Would it be wrong to go to a 24 team playoff and give the top seeds a bye? No reason to have a 2-6 team in the playoffs. Do they really even want to play? I don't think it is a reward to make the playoffs at 2-6.

I love the 24 team playoff bracket. There are others that insist no team wants a bye. I disagree 100%. After 9 games, you have someone that is dung up. A week off helps that recovery process. The only down fall that I see to a bye is that the team receiving the bye can't prepare for their first opponent until after the play in games are complete.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I didn't have time to make up a 24 team bracket and I would be for it. Would love to see one.

 

[northeastNebraska]

But I still believe 32 is too many. I would much rather see 16 rather than 32.

 

[atlanta_ace]

The 8-man fix is so easy it's mind blowing. Let everyone be eligible, first. Keep it the same way they do it now, but call it sub-state. After tonight, re-seed the bracket 1-16 with no geography and be down. Solves your Burwell problem easy enough.

 

[huskerfan1414]

But I still believe 32 is too many. I would much rather see 16 rather than 32.

Would much rather see a team that doesn't deserve to get in make it than to see a team like Burwell who deserves to get in get left out. This isn't pro sports, and again 32 is stupid, 24 is perfect, but 32 over 16 all day. It isn't hurting anybody, 16 would, especially with our current system as mentioned above by myself and others.

 

[huskerfan1414]

The 8-man fix is so easy it's mind blowing. Let everyone be eligible, first. Keep it the same way they do it now, but call it sub-state. After tonight, re-seed the bracket 1-16 with no geography and be down. Solves your Burwell problem easy enough.

This is great, and it could be even better. Like I said above, have all teams start week 0. Week 9 is your sub-state. I'd go 24 over 32 and give byes to the top seeds but what the heck.

 

[northeastNebraska]

The 8-man fix is so easy it's mind blowing. Let everyone be eligible, first. Keep it the same way they do it now, but call it sub-state. After tonight, re-seed the bracket 1-16 with no geography and be down. Solves your Burwell problem easy enough.

I never thought of that idea of sub State. That would be awesome especially if you reseed the top 16 for the first round. Great post!

 

[wsc-oline]

The argument has always been "you wont lose any teams with a chance to win it all" but Burwell is a perfect case for the bigger playoffs, they were state runner ups with kids on the roster who made it through the playoffs last year. They have a legit chance to make it to Lincoln.
Even in a year when the D1 ranks have almost everybody making playoffs with 32 if you went 16 a really good team would be left out.

 

[atlanta_ace]

This is great, and it could be even better. Like I said above, have all teams start week 0. Week 9 is your sub-state. I'd go 24 over 32 and give byes to the top seeds but what the heck.

I think the push back you'd get from coaches is that they don't want a BYE. They'd rather play than have a week off.

 

[runningback43]

Leave it at 32, call it a qualifying round like it was 20 years ago. Reseed it 1-16 after the qualifying round is done. 16 that make it out of the qualifying round are the teams in the playoff.

 

[wolfy94]

Hell of an idea Northeast, but why stop at 16, why not just divide it all into 8 districts ,have one winner per district, play 10 games, seed them in no geographical order, and call it good? No one will ever upset anyone in the first round and they dont't deserve to be there right? That is genius!

 

[atlanta_ace]

Another pet peeve of mine on this 32-team bracket will be next week. The 1 (Palmer), 2 (Perkins County) and 4-seeds (CWCE) will play ROAD games in the round of 16. If you re-seed and start over that wouldn't happen.

 

[tireman2]

Burwell would probably make it. You have to remember there would be one more game. You would have a 9 game schedule and that might put Burwell in.

 

[Alum-Ni]

A lot of good ideas and discussion here

 

[scuba8803]

They use to have all the teams play in the post season like basketball. It didn't work out my home town was 0-8 that year and had to go play of top seed. The score was like 60-0 and it was not fun for the kids. I can remember talking to the coach and some kids before the game. They just wanted it to be over so they could get on to basketball and wrestling. In my experiences when a team is 3-5, 2-6, or 1-7 they just want it to be over. This playoff system is a joke, there should be max 24 teams in the state playoffs and it should be seeded 1-24 no matter what the travel is. If they go 16 and someone is left out that is life. That is how it use to be and kids survived and probably made them better people for it. In life sometimes we just fall a little short in teaches people how to be resilient. Isn't that one of the lessons sports teaches?

 

[Artfour3]

I'd like to throw out there that I disagree wholeheartedly with 8-man playing a 9 game schedule. The teams that are at the bottom of 8-man do not want to play another game. Making Winside or Homer take the field for one more game doesn't seem right, and it really doesn't do the team that plays them any good either. 32 teams gets everyone in there that should be. It keeps the teams home that can't compete or would get flat-out destroyed if they had to play a 9th game. 24 with byes would be kind of cool to see, but if you're one of the top teams playing a bottom team, that's basically a bye week with a scrimmage to keep your guys sharp. I like that C1 and C2 are 16 teams, but for 8-man I think 32 works great.

 

[scuba8803]

24 is the way to go here are the teams that would be in
1. Palmer (8-0), 45.0000
2. Perkins County (8-0), 44.3750
3. Guardian Angels Central Catholic (8-0), 44.3750
4. Elm Creek (8-0), 43.7500
5. Creighton (7-1), 42.8750
6. CWCE (8-0), 42.5000
7. Lourdes Central Catholic (6-2), 42.0000
8. Dundy County-Stratton (5-3), 41.7500
9. South Loup (7-1), 41.6250
10. Medicine Valley (7-1), 41.6250
11. Heartland (7-1), 41.6250
12. Hemingford (6-2), 41.3750
13. Alma (6-2), 41.3750
14. East Butler (4-4), 40.8750
15. Wakefield (6-2), 40.7500
16. Howells-Dodge (6-2), 40.7500
17. Tri County (5-3), 40.5000
18. Pender (4-4), 40.2500
19. Humphrey/Lindsay Holy Family (4-4), 40.2500
20. Burwell (6-2), 40.1250
21. Nebraska Christian (3-5), 40.0000
22. West Holt (5-3), 39.8750
23. Kenesaw (5-3), 39.8750
24. Hartington-Newcastle (5-3), 39.8750

 

[runningback43]

I like 24. If it was only 16, we wouldn't have had the West Holt upset of Dundy County last night.

 

[scuba8803]

About a bye I don't understand why someone wouldn't want a bye. You can rest kids legs, which at this time of the year they getting tired. You can watch more film, and you can actually go watch the two teams you may play. To me watching live gives you a better understanding of the team you are about to play. T

 

[runningback43]

A bye would be great. Gives the kids an extra week to get over their injuries.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Personally, I like the 16 team structure. This allows the games to continue on a weekly schedule and 16 is plenty.

I know that there will be a "good team" that gets left out, however that will be the case no matter how many teams get in. So you take 24, and leave Johnson Brock and Superior out? How can that be fair? These two have an equal or better record than 30% of the field! It is fair because at some point your record and the record of your opponents must be the determining factor within the qualification process. If you want to go to the playoffs, then win your games. The 16 best teams don't always make it. The 8 best don't make it in Basketball either, nor do the best 8 make it in Softball. It is just part of it.

At some point, there must be a cutoff point. I don't feel that the location of that cutoff point really matters. Someone is going to get left out and the argument will always exist.

 

[hazard05]

Okay- I am not sure that this is the answer, and I am not advocating changing the current structure, but this is an interesting topic.

So here is a crazy thought. If you went with a 24 team bracket could you reduce the districts from 10 to 8? Have the 8 district winners receive a BYE and then the remaining 16 “at large” teams play in round 1?

The logistical nightmare would be district assignments (schedules, what to do with the squads that are not eligible and how many not eligible schools can go into a single district).

Not saying I am smart.. I can remember being one of the first teams out during the old 16 team qualifying days of 8-man.. The sun came up.. but man.. it would have been fun to brag about it today...

 

[nenebskers]

My vote is for 16, 24 maybe a good middle ground but too many flaws in D1 and D2 currently. I know this is a hypothetical and unlikely situation but use team #1 as an example. Team #1 opens up in week 0 and plays an 8 game regular season which would have to happen with a 24 team field. Team plays well throughout the season and is on their way to a high seed. Towards the end of the year they have a bye in week 7 or 8 since they played week 0. Their last game of the year is week 9 against one of the many teams of late who have forfeited games at the end of the year. They still qualify as one of the top 8 teams and get a bye. This team now has their first playoff game and hasn't played in over 3 weeks. Again unlikely but is possible.

No matter what the cutoff there is always going to be the team that just misses. The example of Burwell missing the playoffs this year with only two losses both coming to undefeated teams, one being a one possession loss. I think the real issue here is not the amount of teams in the field but how the points are calculated. I've always hated the powerpoint system. Not so much the concept but more so the formula, or lack thereof that is used. If we're going to rely on a mathematical equation it darn well should be better at identifying the top teams.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Personally, I like the 16 team structure. This allows the games to continue on a weekly schedule and 16 is plenty.

I know that there will be a "good team" that gets left out, however that will be the case no matter how many teams get in. So you take 24, and leave Johnson Brock and Superior out? How can that be fair? These two have an equal or better record than 30% of the field! It is fair because at some point your record and the record of your opponents must be the determining factor within the qualification process. If you want to go to the playoffs, then win your games. The 16 best teams don't always make it. The 8 best don't make it in Basketball either, nor do the best 8 make it in Softball. It is just part of it.

At some point, there must be a cutoff point. I don't feel that the location of that cutoff point really matters. Someone is going to get left out and the argument will always exist.

Or we could do it like softball or volleyball and seed everyone in districts according to power points, therefore making it likely the best teams will not be in the same district...
Seriously, quit comparing football to those sports. It is way more fair in those sports where technically everyone makes the state tournament.
Superior is not eligible and it's easier to rationalize 3 loss teams being left out than 2 loss teams.
If we had 16 two of last night's winners wouldn't have been playing.
24 is the way to go.

 

[JB Hero]

There's no reason to bring it down to 16. Every round has huge upsets, you're never gonna stop it. Stop being selfish and let the players enjoy the playoffs

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Or we could do it like softball or volleyball and seed everyone in districts according to power points, therefore making it likely the best teams will not be in the same district...
Seriously, quit comparing football to those sports. It is way more fair in those sports where technically everyone makes the state tournament.
Superior is not eligible and it's easier to rationalize 3 loss teams being left out than 2 loss teams.
If we had 16 two of last night's winners wouldn't have been playing.
24 is the way to go.

Class A assigns districts based upon Power Points. Class B and C (softball) and D do not. They assign districts based upon geographical location starting in the west. We are not talking about Class A. This thread is about Class D(1).

Sure, 2 of last nights winners wouldn't have been playing, but 14 of the winners would have been playing. 16 is the way to go in my opinion. There is no reason to take 50% of the field to post season play. Those 2 teams you speak of had the opportunity to get into the top 16. They didn't do it for whatever reason.

 

[nenebskers]

How about this for a proposal for 8 man. Play a 9 game regular season so the creme rises the top more than an 8 game schedule. 16 team playoff bracket with district winners automatically qualifying. The rest of the spots are filled by the power points rankings but with one caveat. If a team has 7 wins but did not win their district that team is still automatically in. May only affect one or max of two schools a year and would likely kick a 3 loss and maybe even potentially a 4 loss team out.

No perfect solution. Biggest issue I see if you truly look at the root cause is that the power point formula is flawed and it doesn't always recognize the best teams.

 

[Mavric]

The problem is not cutting the playoff field to 16, it's that the point system doesn't give enough credit for winning games. There isn't enough gap between winning and losing. An 8-0 D1 team can beat an 0-8 D2 team by 100 points and they both get 40 points for the game.

If the playoff field was cut to 16 - like the other classes - the regular season would go to nine games - like the other classes - and the point system would change to a four-division setup instead of the current three. That system is much better in that there is a 14 point difference between a win and a loss instead of just 12. If that change was made on the current season, the standings would look like this:

Perkins County (8-0, 44.63)
Palmer (8-0, 44.63)
Elm Creek (8-0, 44.25)
Guardian Angels Central Catholic (8-0, 43.88)
Creighton (7-1, 43.25)
CWCE (8-0, 43.13)
Lourdes Central Catholic (6-2, 42.25)
Heartland (7-1, 42.13)
South Loup (7-1, 41.75)
Medicine Valley (7-1, 41.75)
Alma (6-2, 41.5)
Hemingford (6-2, 41.5)
Burwell (6-2, 40.75)
Howells-Dodge (6-2, 40.75)
Dundy County-Stratton (5-3, 40.5)
Tri County (5-3, 40.13)

----------------------------------

Kenesaw (5-3, 40.13)
West Holt (5-3, 39.38)
Pender (4-4, 39.13)
East Butler (4-4, 39.13)
Hartington-Newcastle (5-3, 39)


So now Burwell - and every team that is 6-2 or better - is in. None of the 4-4 teams are in. And all the points system is left to select two of the six 5-3 teams to fill out the field.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

The problem is not cutting the playoff field to 16, it's that the point system doesn't give enough credit for winning games. There isn't enough gap between winning and losing. An 8-0 D1 team can beat an 0-8 D2 team by 100 points and they both get 40 points for the game.

If the playoff field was cut to 16 - like the other classes - the regular season would go to nine games - like the other classes - and the point system would change to a four-division setup instead of the current three. That system is much better in that there is a 14 point difference between a win and a loss instead of just 12. If that change was made on the current season, the standings would look like this:

Perkins County (8-0, 44.63)
Palmer (8-0, 44.63)
Elm Creek (8-0, 44.25)
Guardian Angels Central Catholic (8-0, 43.88)
Creighton (7-1, 43.25)
CWCE (8-0, 43.13)
Lourdes Central Catholic (6-2, 42.25)
Heartland (7-1, 42.13)
South Loup (7-1, 41.75)
Medicine Valley (7-1, 41.75)
Alma (6-2, 41.5)
Hemingford (6-2, 41.5)
Burwell (6-2, 40.75)
Howells-Dodge (6-2, 40.75)
Dundy County-Stratton (5-3, 40.5)
Tri County (5-3, 40.13)

----------------------------------

Kenesaw (5-3, 40.13)
West Holt (5-3, 39.38)
Pender (4-4, 39.13)
East Butler (4-4, 39.13)
Hartington-Newcastle (5-3, 39)


So now Burwell - and every team that is 6-2 or better - is in. None of the 4-4 teams are in. And all the points system is left to select two of the six 5-3 teams to fill out the field.

EXCELLENT WORK!!