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High School Participation Rates

nenebskers

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Oct 18, 2013
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I've been thinking this for quite some time, just never have taken the time to share it. Topics on this board often go down the class opt down discussion, private vs public discussion, kids are just different these days discussions, etc...

As a parent and current youth coach I can't help but feel bad for kids these days. Kids haven't changed, they don't know anything other than their environment. What has changed is their environment, their parents outlook, their coaches specifically their youth coaches outlook, the pressures they face at a very young age, etc...Frankly we as a society have overtime eroded the experience of youth sports and it is very saddening to me. I can't say that I'm 100% innocent and I need to remind myself at times that a kid has a whole life ahead and the pinnacle is not some high school championship let alone a 4th grade tournament medal on a weekend at some mega money youth programming center that trys to give the impression that their mission statement is to provide opportunities to youth. Bull crap, their unstated mission is to line their pockets at the expense of kids.

Kids are having experiences that are driving them away from participating at alarming rates. Below are some of the many problems I see and I'm sure their are many more.

1. Too much organized programming and not enough free play. Kids are constantly being coached from as little at 3 years old. This tremendously hinders development on multiple fronts. Do 10 year olds really need to put on a helmet, pads, etc..that almost doubled their weight in order to become a good football player down the road? We sure seem to think so and so does the kid until he realizes it's not fun and quits when he's 13.

2. Pressure from parents, coaches, etc... Just take a step back and watch and listen at any youth sporting event. It doesn't matter the age or sport. But if you really want to see some crazy go to a youth football or basketball game. Watch the coaches and how they act. Watch the parents and how they yell at some 20 year old ref barely getting paid. Watch how the coaches and parents are constantly barking instructions at kids. Watch that 9 year old girl's head spin as she is constantly hearing from multiple people what to do every play.

3. Specializing in a sport and not playing multiple sports. Does a 12 year old need to quit softball or baseball in the summer so they can go play another 40 basketball games in the summer? How many times have you heard of a kid changing favorite sports when they are 16, 17, 18 years old because they came to excel at a sport that was previously not their favorite? How many kids never did because they only played one or two sports past age 12? How many kids ended up losing a season due to overuse injuries from playing only one sport?

4. Too long of seasons. These sport facilities are all about getting money at the door and thus will make league seasons extremely long at very young ages. The leagues held at schools tend to be much more balanced, probably because their primary goal is not too make money.

5. Focus on winning and not skill development. Teams that focus on winning can and will win a lot of youth games, and actually dominate a league or tournament, but a team that doesn't win may have had a much better season because of their focus on skill development. In the long run the skill development team will be the more successful season and at some point the winning will follow at a time when it becomes more relevant. I remember being on the coaching staff of a boys basketball team years ago at a large high school. I was shocked at the number of kids who couldn't do a simple jump stop and pivot without falling over. Many of these same kids had spent numerous years playing club ball. My mind was blown and it was one of my first insights of the failures that club ball can be.

6. Costs - I believe the talent of the athletes at the highest end continues to get better and better but everyone else is left in the dust. Look at OPS softball and volleyball for the past 10+ years. Both of those sports have a huge influence by club programs. Schools that have traditionally low income households stand absolutely no chance. Skutt, the Elkhorns, the Millards, etc...are buying their success at this point. I don't fault the kids and patents but extremely sad that some kids will never have the opportunity because of the family and income level they grow up in, something they have no control over.

7. Too much too soon. I'm under the belief that much of the participation rate issues stem from youth sports. Years ago kids may have not played their first organized game until 7th grade. Maybe they started in 5th or 3rd but it surely wasn't at the rate it is today.

One last issue I see often. One kid is born on 07/15/2011 and another is born on 06/01/2010 but was held back (often with athletics in mind). These two kids are in the same grade and same team. One kid is only 90% of the age of the other. Because the focus is on winning and not individual skill development one kid feels behind and the coach casts them to the side and never really works with them but instead focuses on the older kid, which is often the same parent that held their kid back, yes that crazy dad. The younger kid finds sports to be no fun and ends up quitting only to years later, when they are no longer playing, have had their body develop and catch up with the older kid.

Be careful parents. Love your children and understand they are just a child, not a means of you reliving your glory days or living out a college scholarship you didn't have. Maybe your kid is able to handle the pressures but how many other kids, your child's classmates, did your actions effect?

Unfortunately we as a society are so deep into this now I don't know how this ever reverses.
 
Last edited:
I've been thinking this for quite some time, just never have taken the time to share it. Topics on this board often go down the class opt down discussion, private vs public discussion, kids are just different these days discussions, etc...

As a parent and current youth coach I can't help but feel bad for kids these days. Kids haven't changed, they don't know anything other than their environment. What has changed is their environment, their parents outlook, their coaches specifically their youth coaches outlook, the pressures they face at a very young age, etc...Frankly we as a society have overtime eroded the experience of youth sports and it is very saddening to me. I can't say that I'm 100% innocent and I need to remind myself at times that a kid has a whole life ahead and the pinnacle is not some high school championship let alone a 4th grade tournament medal on a weekend at some mega money youth programming center that trys to give the impression that their mission statement is to provide opportunities to youth. Bull crap, their unstated mission is to line their pockets at the expense of kids.

Kids are having experiences that are driving them away from participating at alarming rates. Below are some of the many problems I see and I'm sure their are many more.

1. Too much organized programming and not enough free play. Kids are constantly being coached from as little at 3 years old. This tremendously hinders development on multiple fronts. Do 10 year olds really need to put on a helmet, pads, etc..that almost doubled their weight in order to become a good football player down the road? We sure seem to think so and so does the kid until he realizes it's not fun and quits when he's 13.

2. Pressure from parents, coaches, etc... Just take a step back and watch and listen at any youth sporting event. It doesn't matter the age or sport. But if you really want to see some crazy go to a youth football or basketball game. Watch the coaches and how they act. Watch the parents and how they yell at some 20 year old ref barely getting paid. Watch how the coaches and parents are constantly barking instructions at kids. Watch that 9 year old girl's head spin as she is constantly hearing from multiple people what to do every play.

3. Specializing in a sport and not playing multiple sports. Does a 12 year old need to quit softball or baseball in the summer so they can go play another 40 basketball games in the summer? How many times have you heard of a kid changing favorite sports when they are 16, 17, 18 years old because they came to excel at a sport that was previously not their favorite? How many kids never did because they only played one or two sports past age 12? How many kids ended up losing a season due to overuse injuries from playing only one sport?

4. Too long of seasons. These sport facilities are all about getting money at the door and thus will make league seasons extremely long at very young ages. The leagues held at schools tend to be much more balanced, probably because their primary goal is not too make money.

5. Focus on winning and not skill development. Teams that focus on winning can and will win a lot of youth games, and actually dominate a league or tournament, but a team that doesn't win may have had a much better season because of their focus on skill development. In the long run the skill development team will be the more successful season and at some point the winning will follow at a time when it becomes more relevant. I remember being on the coaching staff of a boys basketball team years ago at a large high school. I was shocked at the number of kids who couldn't do a simple jump stop and pivot without falling over. Many of these same kids had spent numerous years playing club ball. My mind was blown and it was one of my first insights of the failures that club ball can be.

6. Costs - I believe the talent of the athletes at the highest end continues to get better and better but everyone else is left in the dust. Look at OPS softball and volleyball for the past 10+ years. Both of those sports have a huge influence by club programs. Schools that have traditionally low income households stand absolutely no chance. Skutt, the Elkhorns, the Millards, etc...are buying their success at this point. I don't fault the kids and patents but extremely sad that some kids will never have the opportunity because of the family and income level they grow up in, something they have no control over.

7. Too much too soon. I'm under the belief that much of the participation rate issues stem from youth sports. Years ago kids may have not played their first organized game until 7th grade. Maybe they started in 5th or 3rd but it surely wasn't at the rate it is today.

One last issue I see often. One kid is born on 07/15/2011 and another is born on 06/01/2010 but was held back (often with athletics in mind). These two kids are in the same grade and same team. One kid is only 90% of the age of the other. Because the focus is on winning and not individual skill development one kid feels behind and the coach casts them to the side and never really works with them but instead focuses on the older kid, which is often the same parent that held their kid back, yes that crazy dad. The younger kid finds sports to be no fun and ends up quitting only to years later, when they are no longer playing, have had their body develop and catch up with the older kid.

Be careful parents. Love your children and understand they are just a child, not a means of you reliving your glory days or living out a college scholarship you didn't have. Maybe your kid is able to handle the pressures but how many other kids, your child's classmates, did your actions effect?

Unfortunately we as a society are so deep into this now I don't know how this ever reverses.
Very very well said.
 
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I've been thinking this for quite some time, just never have taken the time to share it. Topics on this board often go down the class opt down discussion, private vs public discussion, kids are just different these days discussions, etc...

As a parent and current youth coach I can't help but feel bad for kids these days. Kids haven't changed, they don't know anything other than their environment. What has changed is their environment, their parents outlook, their coaches specifically their youth coaches outlook, the pressures they face at a very young age, etc...Frankly we as a society have overtime eroded the experience of youth sports and it is very saddening to me. I can't say that I'm 100% innocent and I need to remind myself at times that a kid has a whole life ahead and the pinnacle is not some high school championship let alone a 4th grade tournament medal on a weekend at some mega money youth programming center that trys to give the impression that their mission statement is to provide opportunities to youth. Bull crap, their unstated mission is to line their pockets at the expense of kids.

Kids are having experiences that are driving them away from participating at alarming rates. Below are some of the many problems I see and I'm sure their are many more.

1. Too much organized programming and not enough free play. Kids are constantly being coached from as little at 3 years old. This tremendously hinders development on multiple fronts. Do 10 year olds really need to put on a helmet, pads, etc..that almost doubled their weight in order to become a good football player down the road? We sure seem to think so and so does the kid until he realizes it's not fun and quits when he's 13.

2. Pressure from parents, coaches, etc... Just take a step back and watch and listen at any youth sporting event. It doesn't matter the age or sport. But if you really want to see some crazy go to a youth football or basketball game. Watch the coaches and how they act. Watch the parents and how they yell at some 20 year old ref barely getting paid. Watch how the coaches and parents are constantly barking instructions at kids. Watch that 9 year old girl's head spin as she is constantly hearing from multiple people what to do every play.

3. Specializing in a sport and not playing multiple sports. Does a 12 year old need to quit softball or baseball in the summer so they can go play another 40 basketball games in the summer? How many times have you heard of a kid changing favorite sports when they are 16, 17, 18 years old because they came to excel at a sport that was previously not their favorite? How many kids never did because they only played one or two sports past age 12? How many kids ended up losing a season due to overuse injuries from playing only one sport?

4. Too long of seasons. These sport facilities are all about getting money at the door and thus will make league seasons extremely long at very young ages. The leagues held at schools tend to be much more balanced, probably because their primary goal is not too make money.

5. Focus on winning and not skill development. Teams that focus on winning can and will win a lot of youth games, and actually dominate a league or tournament, but a team that doesn't win may have had a much better season because of their focus on skill development. In the long run the skill development team will be the more successful season and at some point the winning will follow at a time when it becomes more relevant. I remember being on the coaching staff of a boys basketball team years ago at a large high school. I was shocked at the number of kids who couldn't do a simple jump stop and pivot without falling over. Many of these same kids had spent numerous years playing club ball. My mind was blown and it was one of my first insights of the failures that club ball can be.

6. Costs - I believe the talent of the athletes at the highest end continues to get better and better but everyone else is left in the dust. Look at OPS softball and volleyball for the past 10+ years. Both of those sports have a huge influence by club programs. Schools that have traditionally low income households stand absolutely no chance. Skutt, the Elkhorns, the Millards, etc...are buying their success at this point. I don't fault the kids and patents but extremely sad that some kids will never have the opportunity because of the family and income level they grow up in, something they have no control over.

7. Too much too soon. I'm under the belief that much of the participation rate issues stem from youth sports. Years ago kids may have not played their first organized game until 7th grade. Maybe they started in 5th or 3rd but it surely wasn't at the rate it is today.

One last issue I see often. One kid is born on 07/15/2011 and another is born on 06/01/2010 but was held back (often with athletics in mind). These two kids are in the same grade and same team. One kid is only 90% of the age of the other. Because the focus is on winning and not individual skill development one kid feels behind and the coach casts them to the side and never really works with them but instead focuses on the older kid, which is often the same parent that held their kid back, yes that crazy dad. The younger kid finds sports to be no fun and ends up quitting only to years later, when they are no longer playing, have had their body develop and catch up with the older kid.

Be careful parents. Love your children and understand they are just a child, not a means of you reliving your glory days or living out a college scholarship you didn't have. Maybe your kid is able to handle the pressures but how many other kids, your child's classmates, did your actions effect?

Unfortunately we as a society are so deep into this now I don't know how this ever reverses.
Post of the year. Kids today have so much more pressure put on them than kids of 20 years ago (my age range), heck even 10 years ago. I have two young children, and I hear about parents "redshirting" before Kindergarten. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. If your kid is ready, send him or her. Don't hold them back a year because of sports and how you think they will develop 10 years from that point. Absolutely insane.

Club sports and youth sports are hurting high school team sports IMO. Especially in smaller communities. Kids play on select baseball/volleyball/basketball teams out of Omaha or Lincoln and think that is what they have to do to get a scholarship. So they drive to those cities once or twice a week and on weekends.

Once they get older, some won't play another sport at their high school. I get it kids need to look out for themselves, but at the end of the day is it really worth it? Say for example Midland Baseball. Would Midland not offer a kid a scholarship in baseball if that same kid said I'm going to miss some fall ball club time so I can play football for my high school team? Would Midland hold that against them if they know he is a good enough player and plays spring baseball and Legion ball?
 
Kids don't understand what they are doing and why in football. They don't understand the passion. They play because they are told to play. But they've never taken the time to watch football and just be in awe of the kids above them, or heck even at the college level.

I do think that the Huskers lack of relevance on a national scale for the better part of 20 years has more to do with it than we think. I think it's getting better, but parents need to foster a love for the game. It's not the coaches. When I was little my youth coaches had ZERO to do with why I loved football. It starts at home!
 
I agree 100%. The youth football program in our town starts practice before our high school team and finishes after they are done with the season. They practice twice a week starting at 6:30 and finish at 8. Right now, they are finishing IN THE DARK!! Absolutely crazy. And has it helped our Junior high or high school as far as winning? Hell NO. It just makes for tired kids and grouchy parents.
Sometimes I think the school itself needs to step in and say enough is enough. If you're going to do things like this you can find another place to practice. Sorry> I'm just one of those grouchy grandparents!!
 
Kids don't understand what they are doing and why in football. They don't understand the passion. They play because they are told to play. But they've never taken the time to watch football and just be in awe of the kids above them, or heck even at the college level.

I do think that the Huskers lack of relevance on a national scale for the better part of 20 years has more to do with it than we think. I think it's getting better, but parents need to foster a love for the game. It's not the coaches. When I was little my youth coaches had ZERO to do with why I loved football. It starts at home!
I believe this post leans into Item #5 in the original post.

I agree with you by the way. When I played basketball while growing up, I never really understood the game. I was a really good shooter that just didn't know what to do. I always felt that our coaches never really taught the game. They taught the offense. They taught it like a dance routine...pass here, cut here, screen here, but I just never really understood how it all was supposed to come together. I was more interested in passing the ball here than I was in knocking down the wide open shot that was staring me in the eyes. I just didn't get it.

When I coached youth sports (basketball and softball), I spent a great deal of time explaining the strategy. I did this because of how lost I felt as a player. I wanted my players to understand WHY we were doing the things we were doing. I wanted them to understand how we were manipulating a softball defense and how we would exploit that defense if our offense did the little things correctly. I wanted them to understand WHY we were running a particular basketball set. I just wanted them to have what I didn't, and that was an understanding of the game.

I believe something that really effects participation is the skill level of the people coaching youth sports today. Youth coaches must have a superior understanding of the game that they are coaching. They must understand why the basics are the basics, why the fundamentals are fundamentals, and why those skills are the very foundation that advanced level teaching are built upon. I can't tell you the number of youth coaches that I have seen that did not play the sport when they were growing up. Is it absolutely necessary...no. Does it help...yes. And God Bless them for being willing to subject themselves to the scrutiny that the job comes with. Everyone in the stands has all of the answers, until they are offered the accountability that comes with that superior knowledge.

My post got too long, but I like and agree with your points.
 
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Post of the year. Kids today have so much more pressure put on them than kids of 20 years ago (my age range), heck even 10 years ago. I have two young children, and I hear about parents "redshirting" before Kindergarten. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. If your kid is ready, send him or her. Don't hold them back a year because of sports and how you think they will develop 10 years from that point. Absolutely insane.

Club sports and youth sports are hurting high school team sports IMO. Especially in smaller communities. Kids play on select baseball/volleyball/basketball teams out of Omaha or Lincoln and think that is what they have to do to get a scholarship. So they drive to those cities once or twice a week and on weekends.

Once they get older, some won't play another sport at their high school. I get it kids need to look out for themselves, but at the end of the day is it really worth it? Say for example Midland Baseball. Would Midland not offer a kid a scholarship in baseball if that same kid said I'm going to miss some fall ball club time so I can play football for my high school team? Would Midland hold that against them if they know he is a good enough player and plays spring baseball and Legion ball?
I'm not disagreeing with you and agree with a lot of what is being said in this thread. But if you go to an AAU basketball tourney or a Perfect Game baseball tourney - all you see are college recruiters out looking for prospects. I don't think colleges would hold that against them at all. I think it is more that some kids are wanting to play the best competition possible to prove themselves to colleges and better themselves.
 
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I believe this post leans into Item #5 in the original post.

I agree with you by the way. When I played basketball while growing up, I never really understood the game. I was a really good shooter that just didn't know what to do. I always felt that our coaches never really taught the game. They taught the offense. They taught it like a dance routine...pass here, cut here, screen here, but I just never really understood how it all was supposed to come together. I was more interested in passing the ball here than I was in knocking down the wide open shot that was staring me in the eyes. I just didn't get it.

When I coached youth sports (basketball and softball), I spent a great deal of time explaining the strategy. I did this because of how lost I felt as a player. I wanted my players to understand WHY we were doing the things we were doing. I wanted them to understand how we were manipulating a softball defense and how we would exploit that defense if our offense did the little things correctly. I wanted them to understand WHY we were running a particular basketball set. I just wanted them to have what I didn't, and that was an understanding of the game.

I believe something that really effects participation is the skill level of the people coaching youth sports today. Youth coaches must have a superior understanding of the game that they are coaching. They must understand why the basics are the basics, why the fundamentals are fundamentals, and why those skills are the very foundation that advanced level teaching are built upon. I can't tell you the number of youth coaches that I have seen that did not play the sport when they were growing up. Is it absolutely necessary...no. Does it help...yes. And God Bless them for being willing to subject themselves to the scrutiny that the job comes with. Everyone in the stands has all of the answers, until they are offered the accountability that comes with that superior knowledge.

My post got too long, but I like and agree with your points.
One thing to piggy back on to your post - I don't think kids are watching it on tv as much as they used to. Watching the game on tv and listening to "most" commentators will help with gaining knowledge of the sport. Something that often gets overlooked - IMO.
 
Kids don't understand what they are doing and why in football. They don't understand the passion. They play because they are told to play. But they've never taken the time to watch football and just be in awe of the kids above them, or heck even at the college level.

I do think that the Huskers lack of relevance on a national scale for the better part of 20 years has more to do with it than we think. I think it's getting better, but parents need to foster a love for the game. It's not the coaches. When I was little my youth coaches had ZERO to do with why I loved football. It starts at home!
I agree with this. Very few kids now watch a lot of football. The football IQ is pretty low on most kids and stuff you take for granted needs to be coached. Agree with the Huskers not being good having something to do with it. All replies to this original post are pretty much spot on. Its turned into a fear of being left behind deal for most parents and youth coaches. If the team down the road is doing something, it doesn't mean that is the way to do it. Skipping a couple of youth tournaments to stay home and work on fundamentals on a Saturday morning will pay dividends in the future with most kids.
 
I'm not disagreeing with you and agree with a lot of what is being said in this thread. But if you go to an AAU basketball tourney or a Perfect Game baseball tourney - all you see are college recruiters out looking for prospects. I don't think colleges would hold that against them at all. I think it is more that some kids are wanting to play the best competition possible to prove themselves to colleges and better themselves.
I think Drew Christo may be a prime example of this. Played three sports, so didn't play fall ball.
 
This sounds crazy but there is a kid here that is VERY football smart, he claims a lot of it is from playing NCAA and Madden instead of the video games other kids were playing. He also watches a ton of football on TV. He is definitely not the norm tho.
 
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I think Drew Christo may be a prime example of this. Played three sports, so didn't play fall ball.
He is the example that came to mind when I wrote the line about not specializing. I remember during the state basketball tournament broadcast this last March Larry Puttney or the color guy saying Drew Christo's favorite sport I believe was football until a year or two earlier when his fastball started reaching into the 90's. What if he would have stopped playing baseball at 14 and concentrated on football or basketball instead?
 
One thing to piggy back on to your post - I don't think kids are watching it on tv as much as they used to. Watching the game on tv and listening to "most" commentators will help with gaining knowledge of the sport. Something that often gets overlooked - IMO.

As a basketball player, one of the best ways to learn about the game is watch the last few minutes of a close game on TV and listen to the announcers.

A few years back I vividly remember watching my schools girls basketball team lose in the first round. What stood out was at the end of the game, down a few points, our point guard who I think was a junior at the time and had played club for many years, had absolutely no compression of how to play with the current game situation in regards to time, score, etc....during the last few possessions. Absolutely no clue.
 
One thing to piggy back on to your post - I don't think kids are watching it on tv as much as they used to. Watching the game on tv and listening to "most" commentators will help with gaining knowledge of the sport. Something that often gets overlooked - IMO.
I have such mixed feelings on this. Watching basketball on TV will pretty much wreck a kids' understanding of the game. The way that they play can not be replicated at the youth level. Don't get me wrong, they do many things fundamentally correct. But to find those things requires a knowledgeable person watching along and pointing these things out. It just happens so fast on TV.

Now, watching the Nebraska HS basketball finals is an excellent place to watch and learn as long as you are watching below Class B. The players and game is very slow, and it is easy to pick out plays, sets, and execution of fundamentals. Class A and sometimes Class B is much tougher to see what the youth coaches are trying to teach because of the speed of those players.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not saying that C1-D2 is bad basketball or that kids lack talent. They just don't have 10 kids on the floor that can run at that level. It isn't a derogatory statement. It is an observation.

Any exposure is better than none, and I agree with that basic premise of your post.
 
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I have such mixed feelings on this. Watching basketball on TV will pretty much wreck a kids' understanding of the game. The way that they play can not be replicated at the youth level. Don't get me wrong, they do many things fundamentally correct. But to find those things requires a knowledgeable person watching along and pointing these things out. It just happens so fast on TV.

Now, watching the Nebraska HS basketball finals is an excellent place to watch and learn as long as you are watching below Class B. The players and game is very slow, and it is easy to pick out plays, sets, and execution of fundamentals. Class A and sometimes Class B is much tougher to see what the youth coaches are trying to teach because of the speed of those players.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not saying that C1-D2 is bad basketball or that kids lack talent. They just don't have 10 kids on the floor that can run at that level. It isn't a derogatory statement. It is an observation.

Any exposure is better than none, and I agree with that basic premise of your post.
I get what your saying. I was just referencing understanding late game situations.
 
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