I've been saying all along something needed to be done by the NSAA. There is no way Parkview Christian should be allowed to recruit in Nebraska's second largest city and worldwide and still compete in our smallest class. Now everyone saw what they did to Fall City SH. If they are out recruiting those guys, maybe people will listen and something will change.
Maybe People will Listen Now
- Thread starter huskernation03
- Start date
Poor FCSH...I feel so bad for them. (Sarcasm font)
No complaint about NPSP located in a town of 25k beating Loomis (population <400)?
Last edited:
Well what’s an option?
Make one parochial class for class C or smaller for bball and Vball or they have to opt up to B? Then one class in C
Last edited:
On the Boys side, we have 4 of 5 parochial schools winning State Titles. I excluded Class A.
On the Girls side, we have 1 for sure and 4 possible parochial schools winning State Titles. Again, I excluded Class A.
I don't really see an issue with Parkview Christian. They really aren't doing anything different than any other parochial schools. I understand that it is hard to swallow, but it is a reality of the system we use here in Nebraska. No rules are being broken and our voting body has had plenty of opportunity to handle this. It is pretty hard to address 1 parochial school without addressing all of them.
I also feel it is worth discussing the fact that kids are moving around to different public schools as well.
On the Girls side, we have 1 for sure and 4 possible parochial schools winning State Titles. Again, I excluded Class A.
I don't really see an issue with Parkview Christian. They really aren't doing anything different than any other parochial schools. I understand that it is hard to swallow, but it is a reality of the system we use here in Nebraska. No rules are being broken and our voting body has had plenty of opportunity to handle this. It is pretty hard to address 1 parochial school without addressing all of them.
I also feel it is worth discussing the fact that kids are moving around to different public schools as well.
1.5 multiplier for parochial schools would be an option. Wouldn't move them all up a class but it would move some. That would be an option. People argue that other states have tried it and it didn't make a difference. I say if that is the case then there should be no opposition to such a proposal and to implement it so that it will either "not make a difference", or give everyone a reason to stop pointing out the inequity in the system. Looks like a win/win to me.
This👆. Anyone think that Bell West, Millard North, or Central boys, all public schools, all just happen to have really talented basketball players attend their school out of coincidence?
IMO I don't think HS coaches are actively "recruiting" as much as it is just kids and families are doing it themselves. While you do see HS transfers take place most times all of it is settled well before a kid even enters HS.
Special Needs kids? That's probably not the direction to go. That will get ugly in a hurry, AND let's not forget that some kids that struggle in the classroom are phenomenal athletes. That is just not a road that I would travel down.
I wouldn't put Class A schools in this conversation. When a class D school flips their roster year after year make it to the state tournament and compete against rural schools that don't have that luxury is when it drives me nuts. I know that there are small towns near more populated areas draw kids to their schools but this Parkview thing isn't right. I know that there are other private schools in D2 but at least they play with the same kids 3 or 4 years. How many 4 years starters has Parkview had the last 6 years? At least Sacred Heart, St. Francis and St Marys plays with the same kids for multiple years.
I get what you are saying but unless you offer a solution for your problem you are simply complaining. There is nothing constructive in that.
How are you going to propose this issue be resolved?
i think plenty of people have said how to resolve it but it will never happen. To many people are concerned about shot clocks and reducing classes to focus on this problem!
I agree with you, nothing will ever happen to attempt to bring any resolution here. It is a really tricky thing.
The populations that most parochial schools, not all, but most draw from are ridiculous. Without going into recruiting and all the extra stuff it’s a basic numbers game. More kids to choose from raises the chance of success.
Parkview- 284,000
Norfolk Catholic- 25,000
GICC- 53,000
Kearney Catholic- 33,000
North platte St pats- 24,000
Hastings Stc- 25,000
Could all be successful 1 class up. I would say yes.
now could all class D1 and D2 parochial play up a class with success? I bet they would be pretty competitive. Would they win championships every year? Maybe not
Parkview- 284,000
Norfolk Catholic- 25,000
GICC- 53,000
Kearney Catholic- 33,000
North platte St pats- 24,000
Hastings Stc- 25,000
Could all be successful 1 class up. I would say yes.
now could all class D1 and D2 parochial play up a class with success? I bet they would be pretty competitive. Would they win championships every year? Maybe not
Why? Why can’t this be a subject to discuss? Did you know that special needs kids go to school until they’re 21?
And no, I’m not talking about that ADHD kid that can control their illness with a pill. I’m talking about those with Down syndrome, or nonverbal severe autism, or a debilitating disease.
It can be an area of discussion. I don't believe it is something that is taboo or the like.
I agree with (and understood) that the focus here is not the ADHD type of students. But here is the the thing, how many of the 21 year old students (or students in the group you are looking at) do you honestly believe there are? I just don't believe that it is a number that will come anywhere near the target of equalizing any inequity that may exist between public and parochial schools.
The second part of this is the focus on special education in a more traditional sense. As soon as anyone on the other side of the conversation sees a team (any sport) that is loaded with an athlete that also crosses over into the special education department then the validity of any claims are neutralized. This is the primary reason I discourage going down this path. It will likely not produce any type of a change. 1 dyslexic student (basketball team) that excels in athletics and the argument is over.
Now I may be wrong in my estimation of the numbers that this student group represents. If I am, I will be the first to stand corrected and will admit it openly.
Taught SPED for 7 years in C2 and smaller schools. Had 2- 21 program year kids. It’s not a large number of the overall sped numbers
If parochial schools need a multiplier so does Adams Central, Amherst, Hershey, Logan View, GINW, Battle Creek and Pierce.
People who think a school like NPSP is controlling their enrollment to be D1 have no clue what they are talking about.
Do people honestly think GICC, NPSP want to have smaller enrollments? They don’t. They will take any kids they can get. That’s how their doors stay open.
I hate this discussion because it’s by a bunch of people who have never set foot in a Catholic school classroom or been involved in the environment. (yes I went to public school K-12). The only time the complainers have been involved with a parochial school is by losing on the field. People have no idea the work that is put in by coaches and administrators who are paid way less compared to their public schools counterparts.
You know what sets Parochial schools a part? Commitment and involvement. Don’t bash them for that.
Do people honestly think GICC, NPSP want to have smaller enrollments? They don’t. They will take any kids they can get. That’s how their doors stay open.
I hate this discussion because it’s by a bunch of people who have never set foot in a Catholic school classroom or been involved in the environment. (yes I went to public school K-12). The only time the complainers have been involved with a parochial school is by losing on the field. People have no idea the work that is put in by coaches and administrators who are paid way less compared to their public schools counterparts.
You know what sets Parochial schools a part? Commitment and involvement. Don’t bash them for that.
Last edited:
Hershey is a town of 500 people playing Ogallala, Broken Bow and other towns like that. I think that counts as a multiplier!
I bet over 30% of Hershey’s student population have North Platte addresses.
Are they dominating class C2? Are they flipping their roster every year with new recruits? The answer is no on both of those. Parkview is doing both in class D2!
Big difference between Hershey and Parkview Cristian. Parkview Cristian brings in foreign exchange students each year just for basketball.
There is a lot of passion in your post. I admire that.
Commitment and involvement are not the only thing that sets Parochial schools apart. I know that you are aware of that.
I would never imply that the parochial school coaches, athletes, or administrators don't work hard. Of course they do. And their teams are very talented as well. I'd never take any of that away.
Leave money out of the equation. Public school coaches are paid very little to coach. I'd speculate that many get paid less than their parochial school counterparts FOR COACHING.
There are inherent differences between the public schools and parochial schools. Things like median household income, social structure of the households, ethnic mix of student body, college graduation rate amongst parents of students, and this list can go on. These factors weigh heavily when extracurricular activities are factored. To pretend these forces don't exist or influence is naive at best, and insulting at the other end. There is an imbalance, but that imbalance is in no way a personal (or general) attack on parochial school's efforts or talent level. It's just a factor.
The fairest system you could possible have is the enrollment system Legion baseball uses
The above post are facts that have more to d with winning and losing than anything else
The above post are facts that have more to d with winning and losing than anything else
I've looked at this as a possibility. It would have to be modified greatly from it's current form (of course), but it certainly has merit. That system will take a tiny little school and get them in Class B in a hurry... which is what it is designed to do. Those Legion Baseball guys figured it out and I'll promise there was zero regard for Political Correctness in the process.
Public school coaches gets paid at least double what private school coaches get paid. It always baffles me when this topic comes up.
I’m a public school graduate that have family who have attended private schools. It disappoints me to listen to the critics
Ok, I hardly see that as the biggest takeaway from my post. Either way, it's not very much. I personally know varsity coaches in small public schools that get paid in the neighborhood of $2,500/year. That includes off season work as well. So if you are telling me that their parochial school peers are making $1,250 then I'm just going to believe you and edit my previous post. My post is actually stronger without that paragraph.
What's the enrollment/classification system Legion Baseball uses? I'm not familiar with it and would like to learn.
I found the rules manual, but a lot of it regarding enrollment talks about "recruiting areas", combining high school areas, and where people lived as of March 31.
Is this what I should be looking at?
"COMBINED TOTAL ENROLLMENT: The entire enrollment on March 31, 2020, of all students in the 10th, 11th and 12th grades of those schools from which players are recruited for one team. This includes all male, female, special education, physically challenged and bilingual students enrolled on March 31, 2020."
"TOTAL ENROLLMENT: The entire enrollment of one high school of all students in 10th, 11th and 12th grades. This includes all male, female, special education, physically challenged and bilingual students enrolled on March 31, 2020."
It seems similar to the NSAA enrollment, which is 9th, 10th, and 11th grades in September as opposed to 10th, 11th, and 12th grades in March.
It would be adding the enrollment of every city or school district that every student in your school comes from. So if you have a student from Omaha and Bellevue, your school now gets the enrollment of both areas.
Yes, the enrollment counts are similar between Legion Baseball and NSAA.
Where it gets interesting is when a Norfolk kid doesn't want to play for Norfolk, he wants to play for Battle Creek. Now Battle Creek has to add a percentage of Norfolk's total enrollment to their classification number as a "player transfer tariff". So Battle Creek can end up moving from Class C to Class B because of 1 player. This is a very crude description of how it works, but it gives you a general idea. Yes the 2 Legion Organizations can agree to let a kid play for another team without consequence. The point is that if Norfolk feels this player moving across hurts their team then Norfolk in essence issues the tariff to Battle Creek by not signing that player off.
I'll try to find the 2021 book and I'll post these pages.
I believe the details are here:
We are not talking about teaching. We are talking about coaching. Teacher wages are not part of this equation.
Many high school coaching staff members are not even part of the school's administration. They are community members that are paid to coach.
Coaching stipends are based on the percentage of the base. That’s in public and private. For example, a head coach for basketball may make 7-10% of the base teacher salary. Assistants will make less. Then the more experience you have at that coaching position, you may increase in percentage. Whether you are a teacher or not, that’s what the stipend is usually based on. I’m not saying it’s completely universal, but pretty but its pretty common
I can't really comment on this much more primarily because many people on this board know who I am and they understand my relationship with many coaches. I feel as if I would be disclosing information that is really not mine to disclose if I go into much detail here.
I believe we can all agree that financial compensation is really not the big motivator for anyone that chooses to be a High School coach. I believe we can also agree that whatever difference in coaching compensation between public and parochial is minor.
I really don't think it is "minor". The difference is as least as great as the discrepancy between public and private school educators, if what I've been told is correct. So, no, not all of us will agree. I would guess that Middle School Coaches in Kearney are paid as well or better than Varsity coaches at Kearney Catholic. That isn't "minor".
Do you realize that I am referencing COACHING PAY only here? Teacher pay is not part of the equation.
Right. I was talking about extra-duty pay. I was just using the discrepancy in educator pay as a comparison.