Reclassification debate

[hdendzonecam]

The NSAA met yesterday to discuss ideas on reclassification options for the 2018 cycle. Any ideas? After looking at our 2014-2015 numbers, it looks like our state is evenly split at about 100 for 9-10-11 enrollment. That means most of our schools are smaller enrollment and are going to have very different ideas about classification than our biggest schools which compromise the two smallest classes.

280 schools
A&B 60 schools
C1,C2,D1,D2,D3(Six man) 220 schools

Issues on the table:
The large discrepancy between the enrollment at the bottom of a class and the top
Teams that want to play up a class
Teams that are playing down to 8 man with c2 enrollments
Teams that are having to forfeit games which hurt their opponent, and take away opportunities for kids to play.
Playoff points system that is keeping good teams out of the playoffs and rewarding teams with easier schedules
Constant consolidation and coops changing the number of teams in the smaller classes.

The committee has their work cut out for them, but I've seen some good proposals.

NSAA Classification Enrollment for 2014-2015 school year
http://nsaahome.org/textfile/fbl/fbclass.pdf

 

[hdendzonecam]

I'll get it rolling. How about this? I think we should adopt 9 man football to compliment the 6 man at the smallest schools.
Proposed Level of Enrollment #'s # of playoff
Class Name Football lowest highest # of schools teams
A 5A 11 man 1000 1889 24 8
B1 4A 11 man 400 999 20 8
B2 3A 11 man 166 399 40 16
C1 2A 11 man 100 165 47 16
C2 1A 11 man 80 99 24 8
D1 A 9 man 60 79 54 32
D2 AA 9 man 33 59 54 32
D3 AAA 6 man ? 32 18 8

Also, I propose a different point system
Football 2014 - Why not basketball's points system?
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41
LOSS 36 - 33 - 30 - 27

Basketball
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41
LOSS 39 - 36 - 33 - 30

 

[Mavric]

Classes A, B, C1 and C2 do use the same wild card system for football as they do for basketball. Not sure why Class D stayed with the old system thought it probably had to do with playing fewer games.

 

[Mavric]

As far a football goes, I don't see going to 9 man. That's (kind of) a big change without really accomplishing anything.

The issue for some time has been enrollment discrepancies in the class but there just aren't enough schools to really fix it. The only thing I see is to up the 8 man line and shrink A and B at the same time to smooth all classes a little bit. Might add a third Class D depending on how man schools opt up. For illustration purposes, I'll go with the line at 100 and say Winnebago still ops down and Wakefield is under that line next time. No one else opts down.

Class A - 24 teams: Anyone over 1,000 right now. Moves Norfolk, SSC, North Platte and Columbus to B
Class B - 24 teams. Still an enrollment spread (approx. 360-1000) but there just isn't any other way to do it.
Class C1 and C2 - 83 schools plus anyone who opts up. 42-45 in each class, split equally. If no one opted up, Class C1 enrollment spread would be 154-350. C2 would be 100-154.
Class D - 131 schools minus any that opt up. 60-65 per class seems like quite a bit now but probably not much different than what it was 25-30 years ago. Or you could add a third class and have approx. 42 per class which would be similar to Class C. I'd probably stick with two classes for now and count on that number to shrink a couple each year due to consolidations.

 

[northeastNebraska]

As far a football goes, I don't see going to 9 man. That's (kind of) a big change without really accomplishing anything.

The issue for some time has been enrollment discrepancies in the class but there just aren't enough schools to really fix it. The only thing I see is to up the 8 man line and shrink A and B at the same time to smooth all classes a little bit. Might add a third Class D depending on how man schools opt up. For illustration purposes, I'll go with the line at 100 and say Winnebago still ops down and Wakefield is under that line next time. No one else opts down.

Class A - 24 teams: Anyone over 1,000 right now. Moves Norfolk, SSC, North Platte and Columbus to B
Class B - 24 teams. Still an enrollment spread (approx. 360-1000) but there just isn't any other way to do it.
Class C1 and C2 - 83 schools plus anyone who opts up. 42-45 in each class, split equally. If no one opted up, Class C1 enrollment spread would be 154-350. C2 would be 100-154.
Class D - 131 schools minus any that opt up. 60-65 per class seems like quite a bit now but probably not much different than what it was 25-30 years ago. Or you could add a third class and have approx. 42 per class which would be similar to Class C. I'd probably stick with two classes for now and count on that number to shrink a couple each year due to consolidations.

This is the best way to do it. Especially for Classes A, C1 and C2. Great proposal! I think Class B will always be screwed number wise.

 

[Coach PowerT]

They need to bring the 45 point rule. No reason to keep playing the game when a team is up by 45+ early in the 3rd quarter.

As for playoff implications, because it's a mercy rule, give a team who got to the 45 point rule an extra 2 pts for playoff points. Would have helped Pierce get into the C1 playoffs as they should be. Instead we have Falls City in the playoffs who only beat Fairbury by 3 points.

Here is my list of things I would like changed.

- 45 pt rule (extra power pts to those who achieve this)
- Bigger districts = Less districts = more wildcards/less non deserving district champs like O'neill
- No more extra power points playing schools up a class. That is the most unfair thing we have in our system right now. Panhandle teams getting in strictly because they play 2 class B schools every year or C2 schools playing C1.
- Class C being 1 class and moving up the minimum number of enrollment for Class D to 93 instead of 83.
- Add 4 schools to Class B from C giving them 36

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

They need to bring the 45 point rule. No reason to keep playing the game when a team is up by 45+ early in the 3rd quarter.

As for playoff implications, because it's a mercy rule, give a team who got to the 45 point rule an extra 2 pts for playoff points. Would have helped Pierce get into the C1 playoffs as they should be. Instead we have Falls City in the playoffs who only beat Fairbury by 3 points.

Here is my list of things I would like changed.

- 45 pt rule (extra power pts to those who achieve this)
- Bigger districts = Less districts = more wildcards/less non deserving district champs like O'neill
- No more extra power points playing schools up a class. That is the most unfair thing we have in our system right now. Panhandle teams getting in strictly because they play 2 class B schools every year or C2 schools playing C1.
- Class C being 1 class and moving up the minimum number of enrollment for Class D to 93 instead of 83.
- Add 4 schools to Class B from C giving them 36

Class C as one class makes no sense

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

I'll get it rolling. How about this? I think we should adopt 9 man football to compliment the 6 man at the smallest schools.
Proposed Level of Enrollment #'s # of playoff
Class Name Football lowest highest # of schools teams
A 5A 11 man 1000 1889 24 8
B1 4A 11 man 400 999 20 8
B2 3A 11 man 166 399 40 16
C1 2A 11 man 100 165 47 16
C2 1A 11 man 80 99 24 8
D1 A 9 man 60 79 54 32
D2 AA 9 man 33 59 54 32
D3 AAA 6 man ? 32 18 8

Also, I propose a different point system
Football 2014 - Why not basketball's points system?
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41
LOSS 36 - 33 - 30 - 27

Basketball
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41
LOSS 39 - 36 - 33 - 30

The point system for basketball for football makes a lot of sense

 

[TP husker]

I like the idea of having 9 team district. Fewer districts and more wild card. Every game matters

 

[cavalot]

Both Options introduce a Class B2 and use the 2014/2015 enrollment numbers


Option 1;


Class A; 20 teams, 1889-1089, 10 game season - 8 team playoff

Class B1; 20 teams 1084-501, 10 game season - 8 team playoff

Class B2; 40 teams 487-177, 9 game season -16 team playoff

Class C1; 40 teams 176-115, 9 game season - 16 team playoff

Class C2; 35 teams 114-81, 9 game season - 16 team playoff

Class D; All 8 man Schools, 8 game season - 32 team playoff

***The number of teams in any class could fluctuate based off of equal enrollment numbers. But most likely will remain very close to the original mark. Class C2 could fluctuate a bit more due to teams that have opted to play 8 man. I believe that the playoff scenarios compensate fairly for any fluctuations that raise a class number.


Option 2


Class A; 24 teams, 1889-1000, 10 game season - 8 team playoff

Class B1; 20 teams 931-414, 10 game season - 8 team playoff

Class B2; 40 teams 395-166, 9 game season -16 team playoff

Class C1; 36 teams 165-115, 9 game season - 16 team playoff

Class C2; 35 teams 114-81, 9 game season - 16 team playoff

Class D; All 8 man Schools, 8 game season - 32 team playoff

***This option allows for all lincoln and omaha metro schools to stay in class A or opt up. As I'm sure Benson would like to do. So again class size could fluctuate a bit but the playoff system would account for any small fluctations.


A third option would simply be to use a set number of teams for each class such as the first option but allow for no fluctuation or opting to take place.


ie... Class A is set at the top 20 teams regardless of city or enrollment numbers that fall into the ranges that I listed above. The next 20 or in class B1 and so on. Pretty cut and dry, and sure to cause lots of disagreement among the first few schools left out of Class A. (Lincoln East, Kearney..)

 

[hdendzonecam]

Classes A, B, C1 and C2 do use the same wild card system for football as they do for basketball. Not sure why Class D stayed with the old system thought it probably had to do with playing fewer games.

They actually use different point totals for wins and losses. They don't reward playing top teams the way basketball does. They should use the exact same points system for both sports. When you go 7-2 losing to only the top teams, you shouldn't be penalized to the point that you don't get into a wildcard spot compared to a team who plays an easy schedule. Its the points for losing that are different, and I think it could/should be changed for next fall to fix the problem.

Football
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41
LOSS 36 - 33 - 30 - 27 If I play a top team like Battle Creek and lose, I get 36 points

Basketball
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41 If I play a top team like Battle Creek and lose, I get 39 points
LOSS 39 - 36 - 33 - 30

That difference is huge when factoring in schedule strength for playoff seeding. A loss to a top division team should be close to a win over a lower division team.

For instance, in C1 this fall, the 16 playoff teams opponents have an average opponent win % of .4653
Of these 16 teams, only 5 teams (Scotus, Wahoo, Ogallala, Bishop Neumann, and Ashland) had opponents with a win % higher than .500

The next 10 teams out have an opponent win % of .5109
The remaining 21 teams have an opponent win % of .5313

The result is.......Easier schedule = playoffs Tougher Schedule = much tougher chance for playoffs
This is all Captain Obvious stuff, but why not reward a tougher schedule? Teams with tough schedules should make it in with a loss to a division 1 or 2 team as opposed to a team who wins an extra game against a division 3 or 4 team.

 

[hdendzonecam]

In terms of 9 man football, I like it because you drop the tackles and play the same game as 11 man football. You also could play on a full size field. 8 man football structurally is very different than 11 man football, but why not have it be as close as possible?

 

[coffeedrinker11]

Enrollment for the smaller schools should look at the number of boys not total enrollment. Two classes with 30% boys is a big deal for a D1 or C2 school.

 

[Mavric]

Football
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41
LOSS 36 - 33 - 30 - 27 If I play a top team like Battle Creek and lose, I get 36 points

Basketball
Division 1 2 3 4
WIN 50 - 47 - 44 - 41 If I play a top team like Battle Creek and lose, I get 39 points
LOSS 39 - 36 - 33 - 30

Gotcha. I missed that the losses were different. But I like more difference between winning and losing. Under the basketball format, an undefeated team can beat a winless team by 100 points and there's only two points difference in how many points they get for that game. They get the same points if the undefeated team is up a class. That doesn't make sense to me.

There should be more reward for winning than losing. Usually that's how a 6-3 team gets in ahead of a 7-2 team because their extra loss didn't cost them very much. Such as Stanton in C-2. They had two really good teams on their schedule - 9-0 Battle Creek and 8-1 Oakland-Craig - but the rest of their schedule was pretty weak. So even though their only two losses were to Top 10 teams, they couldn't overcome the rest of their weak schedule and got left out. Five 6-3 teams got in ahead of them because they weren't hurt as badly with their extra loss.

The problem, like you said, is the unbalanced schedules. Unfortunately there just really isn't any way to overcome this. I think fewer districts would help but that would also increase the chance that there will be more good teams in the same district.

Unfortunately there just ins't a prefect answer.

 

[Buff-alo]

Enrollment for the smaller schools should look at the number of boys not total enrollment. Two classes with 30% boys is a big deal for a D1 or C2 school.

Percentage of boys in the 3 year enrollment for C2 on down is something they might want to consider. Definitely impacts a program if you have a couple of classes where there just aren't that many boys in the school.

 

[hdendzonecam]

Also, what about a 24 team bracket with a first round bye for the top 8 teams? I think that would be a better way than the 16 team brackets right now. Deserving teams won't ever get left out, and that would reward the top 8 seeds for a great season and make sure all deserving teams a chance to show their stuff on the field. There are always teams at the end of the season that are peaking at the right time and have a good record, but don't get in.

With this year's playoff points, here is a 24 team C1 bracket.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sdg0mmg20o9w8z4/Capture2.JPG?dl=0

 

[2010Husker]

It would be interesting to see how any of the top 8 seeds in the past 4-6 years would like having a bye to begin the playoffs. Doesn't seem like something many teams would like, but you never know if you don't ask.

 

[C2stoga]

work all classes to an even number, do away with the current district format, let all schools develop their own schedules, allowing for conference play and what not. at the end of the nine game season, every team would then begin a "district"playoff, win your district portion and you move into the state rounds. Very similar to basketball, Volleyball and such. Missouri does this and it seems to work very well.