Schools moving to 8 man or moving up to 11 man (List)
- Thread starter Coach PowerT
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Someone mentioned on here that Riverside was moving up to 8 man football. Don't know if that's true or not.
I doubt it happens this upcoming cycle but I bet GACC will be playing 11 man in the next two year cycle (2020-2021.)
I doubt it happens this upcoming cycle but I bet GACC will be playing 11 man in the next two year cycle (2020-2021.)
Bobby Mills mentioned Riverside in his blog when he did a write-up of their game against Heartland Lutheran. Do you really think GACC will go up? They just recrowned the field for an 8 man configuration this year.
I was talking to a CC guy at the Nebraska game two weeks ago he thought it could happen. I know many did not want to see CC go 8 man, but at the time, numbers allowed it.
CC used to play at Public and they would just rotate weeks back when I played. Worked well. I still find it strange they play in Beemer, ( I know there isn't a spot in West Point for them currently) but that's just me.
I assume they would abandon the Beemer field and play again in West Point if they move back to 11-man
Here is a complied list gathered from the message board, coaches, or other officials. Some of these may be hear say, but anyway its a list of schools considering a move. Considering does not mean they are moving.
Moving into 11-man
NONE
Moving into 8-man
Arcadia-Loup City
Cross County
HTRS
Elmwood-Murdock
Madison
North Platte St. Pats
Omaha Brownell-Talbot
Riverside
Southern
Moving into 6-man
Crawford
Creek Valley
Dorchester
Eustis-Farnam
Exeter-Milligan
Franklin
High Plains
Leyton
McCool Junction
Mead
Meridian
OCA
Pawnee City
Paxton
SEM
Stapleton/McPherson County
Sterling
St. Mary's
Stuart
Wallace
Winside
Moving into 11-man
NONE
Moving into 8-man
Arcadia-Loup City
Cross County
HTRS
Elmwood-Murdock
Madison
North Platte St. Pats
Omaha Brownell-Talbot
Riverside
Southern
Moving into 6-man
Crawford
Creek Valley
Dorchester
Eustis-Farnam
Exeter-Milligan
Franklin
High Plains
Leyton
McCool Junction
Mead
Meridian
OCA
Pawnee City
Paxton
SEM
Stapleton/McPherson County
Sterling
St. Mary's
Stuart
Wallace
Winside
If accurate, wow! C could be down to under 70 schools total. 6 man pushed over 45 schools.
Remember just a few short years ago when some were trying to break C down into 3 classes? Thought it was a huge mistake then and now obviously it would have been.
I wish more of these 6 and 8 man schools would look to coop with a neighbor. But, still glad they will field a team in a lower class then not play at all due to forfeit. Looks like some tough lessons over the past few years by some is being noticed by others and they are getting smarter and more proactive.
Still feel that the number of classes we have discourages copping because it almost always results in the schools moving up a classification. I feel strongly, especially after seeing this, that the classes should be as follows:
A - top 36
B - next 36
C - remaining 11 man
D1 - 9 man
D2 - 6 man
Then a 16 team playoff bracket for A and B isn't so crazy. C, D1, and D2 could probably go 32 tram bracket, although I'm not a huge fan of it.
I've been told Bayard, Bridgeport, Kimball, and Southern Valley are all looking at 8 man. If St Pats goes down to 8 man, which they certainly will have the numbers for, it leaves Hershey as the only team out west. The next team over is Valentine (who is going to C1 with 70 kids). The next teams are near Kearney. There is essentially no western district in C2 if Bayard, Bridgeport, Kimball, and St Pats drop down.
What I would rather see is consolidations or mergers. I understand not everyone can merge/co-op. Imagine if some of these schools would just drive under 15 miles. Examples...
Cross County to High Plains: 9.5 miles
Cross County to Osceola: 10.5 miles
Elmwood-Murdock to Weeping Water 12 miles
Southern to Diller-Odell: 14.5 miles
Dorchester to Friend: 9 miles
Eustis-Farnam to Elwood: 11.4 miles
Exeter-Milligan to Friend: 9 miles
Sutherland to Paxton: 12 miles
Sterling to Freeman: 7 miles
Stuart to Aktinson: 10 miles
These would be some nice schools and would be competitive at a high level.
not sure of the numbers of these schools, but I think that the only 8 C1 schools west of 183 are:
Chadron
Gothenburg
Gordon-Rushville
Ogallala
Mitchell
Chase County
Cozad
Minden
I probably missed one (or many), but will these schools drop to C2?
What you don't realize is that a lot of the co-ops would be forced into 11 man and would still struggling fielding a team. Example would be E/F and Elwood would be C-2 and still only have 20 to 22 out for football and that is with a lot of underclassman.
With the new enrollment cutoffs, assuming an exact boy/girl split, they would be 8 man. I understand completely what you are saying though. With 7 classes to compete in it makes cooping a very difficult decision for many. I wish the C/D line would have been closer to 55 or 60 boys, which is in line with what most states are at. If a school has an enrollment of 50 and they want to play 11 man, let them opt up.
Just curious as to why 32 and not 36 for A and B? Don't get worked up Nutty, this is just for fun.
That is the problem it is not an exact boy/girl split they would be in the low 50's with boy only count grades 9-10-11. A lot of these small 8-man or 6 man schools in the same boat. Try to co-op with another school pushes them to 11 man because of the 47 cut off number. Not many of these small schools are wanting to try 11 man with only 20 to 25 out.
No problem, just that B is such a large gap in enrollment from top to bottom Just didnt see a fair way to add the other schools
I think if you make A and B 36 instead of 32, or the current 28 for A and 32 for B the gap closes, especially for B.
If A goes to 32 the following are added (with current enrollments)
886 Elkhorn South
872 South Sioux
832 Columbus
796 Ralston
The following would be added in B.
251 Omaha Concordia
238 Gothenburg
236 Columbus Lakeview
230 Hastings Adams Central
If A and B both go to 36 the following would be added in A
886 Elkhorn South
872 South Sioux
832 Columbus
796 Ralston
788 Gretna
763 Hastings
730 Elkhorn
716 Scottsbluff
And the following for B
251 Omaha Concordia
238 Gothenburg
236 Columbus Lakeview
230 Hastings Adams Central
235 Wahoo
218 Wayne
212 Cozad
212 DC West
207 Milford
200 Boystown
198 Fairbury
195 Columbus Scotus
By making both 36 the smallest A added would be at Scottsbluff at 716 instead of Ralston at 796, a difference of about 13 boys per class. The smallest B would be Columbus Scotus at 195 instead of Adams Central at 230, a difference of about 6 boys per class. Also, with 32 B would have a range of 788 to 230. With 36 in both B would have a range of 630 to 195. After Lexington at 630 the next largest is Blair at 554.
I think 36 in A and B could work. One concern is the potential gap in A. I feel that the 8 that would move up to A honestly fit in better in A than the do in B though. Most have been A at some point and those that have not will be very soon. The same can be said about the schools at the very top of C1 currently if they went to B.
The other thing this would help with is getting C1 and C2 combined into one large class. The trickle down affect from C being one class would be two things; allowing schools more wiggle room to allow for coops/consolidations and getting some of these low C2 schools into 8 (or 9) man because they would hopefully with all that also raise the cutoff line to be more similar to the rest of the country. 110 would be closer to everyone else but still lower than national average.
Also, scheduling would be easier and travel times less for the students. Lastly, the power points discussion for playing up or down a class, especially for other sports, would be less relevant as it would happen less and there would be one lass class.
Alright, time for bed!
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I would agree with 36 in A very good points But still think 32 in B
what about
A--top 36
B next 32
C1 next 32
C2 remaining 11-man teams
D1 boy count of 55
D2 boy count of 32
6man boy count of 27
No opting down You play in the class you are in or you stop offering football and try to get good at something else
Randolph and winside share jr high football so there might be one you can add. I don't know if they are going to do it but one never knows. also I see this trend continuing to spiral downward, few if any smaller schools will move up to play 11 man while more schools then not will move down, pretty soon you are going to have 6 man all over the state.
I see it the other way. Had a C3 been added, I think the list of schools that are looking into dropping to 8 man would be drastically reduced. I think the disparity between the top of C2 and the bottom is the toughest row to hoe in all of football right now. It's not unthinkable to imagine a C2 game where team a has more juniors and seniors suited than team b has players.
I'd disagree. Oakland-Craig, Crofton, LHNE, Bergen, Hartington CC, and NP St Pats have all been down around the bottom in enrollment and been very good or at least had some success in this cycle. You could probably throw in Cross County last year as decent. Several of those teams I named live and die with playing physical in the trenches. I could see a lot of schools in the Northeast making the same conclusions about dropping to 8 for safety even if there was a C3.
From a distance, this wouId seem to make sense. However, the one situation I am familiar with (SutherIand and Paxton) has a huge administrative obstacIe, they are in different time zones.
Wauneta and Palisade are in different time zones and they make it work.
I get that. As I lived in NP for two years. But Paxton would figure a way to make it work (Wauneta and Palisade do it). I think Sutherland-Paxton could be a formidable squad in many sports.
It sounds like Dorchester school board will vote on going 6 man at the board meeting next Monday
So that would be +12 for Six Man which would be 37 schools.
Six fewer schools in D1 and D2 (splitting the 12 evenly) would be 47/48.
Getting close to evened up.
Paxton I'm sure couId make it work if they needed to but I don't think they are at that point yet. From what I heard they wiII be pIaying 8-man in the next cycIe
Street, I'm not exactly sure what you are meaning, but I'll try. Yes, those schools have been good, no doubt about it. I would say a school as small as those have some combination of common factors: Things like really, really good coaching, high participation rates, tradition, or things like that. It isn't that a lot of the schools that will drop COULDN'T field an 11 man team. The bigger problem is that there aren't many schools like them left. A c3 class would clearly provide that for these programs. Having similar schools to compete against is a huge incentive to stay 11 man. Playing the likes of Valentine, St. Paul, Central City,some of which, iirc, aren't too far removed from Class B doesn't provide that incentive. And with the upbump of numbers that will only get worse. I agree, some teams will still opt to play down. But a C3 WOULD reduce the number, the way I see it.
I'm mostly saying that top to bottom there's a lot of competition. I see what you're saying about top end teams too. In a way you have a handful of teams that are still built to compete in C1 and those toward the bottom that I'm referring to are still built like the C2 powers of old. Good coaching, fundamentals, physicality and 2 to 3 star players. And when you lack some of those things you aren't as successful. I do see that not lasting forever and get what you mean about the numbers making changes. I just don't see the solution being watering down the classes either. I'm hoping changing the classification to boys numbers will help a lot. Hoping.
Maybe in a few more years. Hershey needs to expand their High school. They get a lot of kids from NP and would get more if they had more room.
OK, I just had seen their basketball number would have had them there if it was done right now, and also heard somewhere that their boy number would be several boys above 70, the C1 cutoff.
OK, I get exactly what you are saying. I think the problem was the perception. If I remember right, the original idea was not to just split C three ways. The idea was the new C1 would hold the bottom end of B as well, solving THAT problem too. Ideally, I had hoped C1 would be the low B's, Big C1's. C2 would be most of C1 and the top few of C2. And C3 would have been enrollments in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Keeping teams in 11 man, and even coaxing some back. If you generally have22-30 kids out you can field an 11 man team IF you are playing others like you. We'll never know now. I think gender based classification is a great idea. I'd do it for all sports, though.