Thoughts....

[huskers_2001]

LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR CHANGE IN NSAA REGULATIONS
Proposal Generated by Rocky Ruhl, Wayne, School Access Code, District 3
This proposal was submitted on: Oct 28, 2016
This proposal is submitted by:
Name: Mike Lenihan, Wayne and Jason Dolliver, Pender
School: Wayne
NSAA District: 3
The proposal deals with:
Yearbook: Article 2 Section: 13.5 Page: 26
The section/paragraph/sentence indicates what is to be added/deleted/changed to the current Bylaw/Approved Ruling:
ADDITIONS are in all capital letters. (Changes/Deletions are in parentheses.)
1. MEMBER SCHOOLS ARE GENERALLY PLACED IN CLASSIFICATIONS FOR NSAA ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES ACCORDING TO THE TOTAL BOY-GIRL COUNT FROM GRADES 9, 10 AND 11 OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR, WITH SUCH AUDITED COUNTS BEING PROVIDED BY THE NEBRASKA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

2. IN ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES, A MEMBER SCHOOL IN CLASSES B AND BELOW ACCORDING TO THE PREVIOUS YEAR’S GRADES 9-11 ENROLLMENT COUNT SHALL BE PLACED ONE CLASSIFICATION ABOVE THE CLASSIFICATION DICTATED BY THEIR THREE-GRADE ENROLLMENT IN A PARTICULAR SPORT IF THE MEMBER SCHOOL ATTAINS A DESIGNATED LEVEL OF SUCCESS DURING THE PREVIOUS FOUR SEASONS OF THAT SPORT, AS MEASURED BY THE SUCCESS FACTOR FORMULA CALCULATED ACCORDING TO SECTIONS 5-9 BELOW.

3. DUE TO TWO-YEAR CLASSIFICATIONS FOR FOOTBALL, THE SUCCESS FACTOR FORMULA FOR FOOTBALL SHALL BE CUMULATIVE FOR A FOUR-YEAR PERIOD, BUT ONLY FOR THE FOUR YEARS IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING EACH TWO-YEAR CLASSIFICATION PERIOD. SCHOOLS SHALL BE MOVED UP IN FOOTBALL ONLY IN A NEW TWO-YEAR CLASSIFICATION PERIOD.

4. SCHOOLS SHALL ATTAIN SUCCESS POINTS FOR BEING ONE OF THE SCHOOLS TO QUALIFY FOR THE STATE TOURNAMENT OR MEET IN THOSE SPORTS THAT QUALIFY EIGHT SCHOOLS FOR THE STATE TOURNAMENT OR MEET; FINISHING IN THE TOP EIGHT SCHOOLS (AND TIES) IN ITS CLASSIFICATION FOR SPORTS IN WHICH MORE THAN EIGHT SCHOOLS QUALIFY FOR THE STATE TOURNAMENT OR MEET; AND FOR LEVELS OF SUCCESS AT THE STATE COMPETITION LEVEL.

5. SUCCESS POINTS ARE CUMULATIVE OVER EACH FOUR-YEAR PERIOD AND SHALL BE ACCUMULATED IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER:

a. A SCHOOL SHALL BE AWARDED ONE (1) POINT FOR BEING ONE OF THE EIGHT SCHOOLS TO QUALIFY FOR THE STATE EVENT OR TO BE AMONG THE TOP EIGHT (AND TIES) IN THE FINAL RESULTS OF THE STATE EVENT.

b. A SCHOOLS SHALL BE AWARDED ONE (1) ADDITIONAL POINT FOR WINNING/ADVANCING AT THE STATE EVENT OR FOR FINISHING AT LEAST FOURTH (AND TIES) AT THE STATE TOURNAMENT OR MEET WHERE MORE THAN EIGHT SCHOOLS QUALIFY FOR THE STATE CONTEST.

c. A SCHOOL SHALL BE AWARDED ONE (1) ADDITIONAL POINT FOR PLAYING IN THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CONTEST OR FOR FINISHING AT LEAST SECOND (AND TIES) AT THE STATE TOURNAMENT OR MEET WHERE MORE THAN EIGHT SCHOOLS QUALIFY FOR THE STATE CONTEST.

d. A SCHOOL SHALL BE AWARDED ONE (1) ADDITIONAL POINT FOR WINNING OR TYING FOR THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP IN THE SPORT.

6. SCHOOLS ACCUMULATING TEN (10) OR MORE SUCCESS POINTS OVER A FOUR-CONSECUTIVE-YEAR PERIOD SHALL MEET INITIAL QUALIFYING STANDARDS FOR MOVING UP IN CLASSIFICATION. SCHOOLS THAT MEET INITIAL QUALIFYING STATUS TO MOVE UP IN CLASSIFICATION WOULD THEN BE SUBJECT TO ADJUSTMENTS FOR DEMOGRAPHIC CRITERIA PER SECTION 8 BELOW BEFORE A CHANGE IN CLASSIFICATION IS DETERMINED.



7. FOR CALCULATION OF POINTS FOR SCHOOLS INVOLVED IN A COOPERATIVE SPONSORSHIP, THE DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION FOR THE SCHOOL WITH THE LARGEST THREE-GRADE STUDENT POPULATION IN THE COOPERATIVE SPONSORSHIP SHALL DICTATE WHETHER POINTS WILL BE ADDED OR DEDUCTED.

8. SCHOOLS THAT ACCUMULATE TEN (10) SUCCESS POINTS AS DEFINED IN SECTION 6 ABOVE OVER A FOUR-CONSECUTIVE-YEAR PERIOD SHALL THEN HAVE THE POINT TOTAL ADJUSTED ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING DEMOGRAPHIC CRITERIA AS SUPPLIED BY THE NSAA AND THE NEBRASKA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION:

a. A SCHOOL SHALL BE AWARDED ONE (1) ADDITIONAL POINT IF THE HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICAL ADDRESS IS LOCATED WITHIN A FIFTEEN (15) MILE RADIUS OF THE PHYSICAL ADDRESS OF A HIGH SCHOOL WITH A THREE-GRADE, BOY-GIRL ENROLLMENT OF 850 OR MORE;

b. A SCHOOL SHALL BE AWARDED ONE (1) ADDITIONAL POINT IF FEWER THAN 15% OF THE STUDENTS ENROLLED AT THE SCHOOL IN GRADES NINE (9) THROUGH TWELVE (12) QUALIFY FOR FREE OR REDUCED PRICE LUNCHES.

c. A SCHOOL SHALL HAVE ONE (1) POINT DEDUCTED IF MORE THAN 40%OF THE STUDENTS ENROLLED AT THE SCHOOL IN GRADES NINE (9) THROUGH TWELVE (12) QUALIFY FOR FREE OR REDUCED PRICE LUNCHES.

d. A SCHOOL SHALL BE AWARDED ONE (1) ADDITIONAL POINT IF FEWER THAN 10% OF THE STUDENTS ENROLLED AT THE SCHOOL IN GRADES NINE (9) THROUGH TWELVE (12) RECEIVE SPECIAL EDUCATION SERVICES AS REPORTED BY THE NEBRASKA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

e. A SCHOOL SHALL HAVE ONE (1) POINT DEDUCTED IF MORE THAN 30% OF THE STUDENTS ENROLLED AT THE SCHOOL IN GRADES NINE (9) THROUGH TWELVE (12) RECEIVE SPECIAL EDUCATION SERVICES AS REPORTED BY THE NEBRASKA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

9. ANY SCHOOL THAT HAS FINAL POINT TOTALS (SUCCESS AND DEMOGRAPHIC ADJUSTMENTS) EQUAL OR GREATER THAN 19 IN THAT FOUR-YEAR PERIOD SHALL BE MOVED UP ONE CLASSIFICATION IN THE PARTICULAR SPORT IN WHICH THE POINTS WERE ACCUMULATED.

10. A SCHOOL IN CLASSES B AND BELOW ACCORDING TO THE THREE-GRADE ENROLLMENT COUNT, BUT WHICH HAS BEEN MOVED UP ONE CLASSIFICATION PURSUANT TO THE ABOVE CRITERIA, WILL BE MOVED BACK DOWN TO THE CLASSIFICATION DICTATED BY THEIR THREE-GRADE ENROLLMENT COUNT IN A PARTICULAR SPORT IF THE SCHOOL’S TEAM NO LONGER QUALIFIES BY VIRTUE OF RECEIVING 19 OR MORE TOTAL POINTS (SUCCESS AND DEMOGRAPHIC ADJUSTMENTS) IN THE IMMEDIATE PRECEDING FOUR SEASONS OF THE SPORT.

11. WHENEVER RECLASSIFICATION IN A PARTICULAR SPORT OCCURS, NO SCHOOL TEAM SHALL BE MOVED UP MORE THAN ONE CLASSIFICATION ABOVE THE CLASSIFICATION IN WHICH THE SCHOOL WOULD BE PLACED ACCORDING TO ITS THREE-GRADE ENROLLMENT.

12. IF A SCHOOL HAS BEEN MOVED UP IN CLASSIFICATION PURSUANT TO THESE SUCCESS FACTOR FORMULA, BUT IN A SUBSEQUENT SCHOOL YEAR IN WHICH RECLASSIFICATION OCCURS FOR A PARTICULAR SPORT, THE SCHOOL WOULD BE PLACED IN THAT SAME HIGHER CLASSIFICATION AS DICTATED BY THE SCHOOL’S THREE-GRADE ENROLLMENT COUNT AND SHALL NOT BE MOVED UP ANOTHER CLASSIFICATION IN THAT SCHOOL YEAR. IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, THE SCHOOL WILL NOT BE MOVED UP IN CLASSIFICATION IN ANY PARTICULAR SPORT AGAIN UNDER THIS RULE UNLESS AND UNTIL THE SCHOOL’S TEAM AGAIN MEETS THE CRITERIA OF THIS SUCCESS FACTOR FORMULA.

13. IF A SCHOOL HAS BEEN MOVED UP IN CLASSIFICATION PURSUANT TO THIS SUCCESS FACTOR FORMULA, BUT IN A SUBSEQUENT YEAR IN WHICH RECLASSIFICATION OCCURS FOR A PARTICULAR SPORT AND THE SCHOOL’S THREE-GRADE ENROLLMENT COUNT WOULD PLACE THAT SCHOOL IN A LOWER CLASSIFICATION IN THAT SPORT THAN WHAT THE PREVIOUS YEAR’S THREE GRADE-ENROLLMENT COUNT WOULD HAVE PLACED THEM, THE SCHOOL WILL THEN BE MOVED DOWN ONE CLASSIFICATION.

14. IF ANY SCHOOL TEAM IS MOVED UP IN CLASSIFICATION PURSUANT TO THIS SUCCESS FACTOR FORMULA OR ANY OTHER RULE OR POLICY, THEN THE SCHOOL WITH THE LOWEST THREE-GRADE ENROLLMENT WITHIN THAT HIGHER CLASSIFICATION WILL BE MOVED TO THE NEXT LOWER CLASSIFICATION IN THAT SPORT, PROVIDING SUCH SPORT IS CLASSIFIED WITH A FINITE NUMBER OF SCHOOLS IN A PARTICULAR CLASS. IF IN A SUBSEQUENT SCHOOL YEAR A SCHOOL IS MOVED BACK DOWN IN CLASSIFICATION IN A SPORT, THEN THE SCHOOL WITH THE HIGHEST THREE-GRADE COUNT IN THAT CLASSIFICATION WILL BE MOVED UP TO THE HIGHER CLASSIFICATION IN THAT SPORT, AGAIN PROVIDING SUCH SPORT IS CLASSIFIED WITH A FINITE NUMBER OF SCHOOLS IN A PARTICULAR CLASS.





Will this proposal impact cost to the School? NO

Will this proposal impact cost to the NSAA? NO

Will this proposal increase travel for the participating schools? NO
Will this proposal impact a student or coach's loss of instruction time? NO
Rationale for the proposed change:
PROS:

1. The NSAA Board appointed a Public/Non-Private Committee to look at the public-private school issues to determine whether there were measurable reasons for the higher percentage of championships won by non-public schools, and if so, whether there were appropriate ways to address the matter.

2. The committee was charged with trying to identify advantages and disadvantages peculiar to public schools and private schools alike, recognizing that some public schools enjoy elevated levels of ongoing success, as well.

3. The committee was sensitive to not strictly penalize schools for being successful, but rather to use success as a benchmark to identify schools about which to explore whether some of the demographic factors played key roles in that elevated level of success.




CONS:

Penalizing programs that have established solid programs. Ensuring that all data is provided for each member school in each of the affected areas.


PROPOSED IMPLEMENTATION DATE: The first year of calculating success points will be the 2017-18 school year. As soon as a school reaches the threshold of 19 points through success and demographic adjustments, the schools classification will be modified for the following year, although

 

[teachmehowtosnuggie]

I read this and want to see if I am reading it correctly. The deducting of points for the things such as special ed, reduced lunch etc., is based on the the current year's 9-12 enrollment. Correct?

If that is the case, I feel this is a somewhat confusing system: We're going to base some of this information (success) on the past 4 years, but then also use information that is only pertinent to this year. And on top of that, we're going to use enrollment numbers of 9-11 to determine classes in football, but current numbers for 9-12 to potentially deduct points for free and reduced lunch.

Am I on an island here thinking this seems off?

 

[Huskers783]

I don't know that I like determining classification based on past success. You could have a couple of good classes bunched together that push your school/sport over the 19 pt limit and while those kids are in college or in careers, your next generation is having to play a class up and cannot compete. I like thinking outside the box to try and make things equitable, but I do not agree with this proposal.

 

[teachmehowtosnuggie]

I also believe there is going to need to be some hard guidelines on what exactly qualifies as special education. I know this was brought up in a previous post, but having an IEP and being in Special Ed, are in my opinion, two vastly different things. I think you'd run the risk of not-so-ethical folks erring on the side of IEPs (even for a single subject) which could boost SpEd enrollment and thus deduct a point.

(That's my cynical mind at work)

 

[nenebskers]

I threw up in my mouth reading this. This resembles our national government, don't fix the real issues at hand but instead create some crazy and confusing ways to punish, yes I said punish, schools who succeed.

What's the goal? To have every school finish with a .500 record? To have no winners and losers but instead to have every game end in a tie?

I can't imagine a system where kids play up a class because of what kids 4 years earlier did. Are we going to have Omaha North football and Omaha South basketball compete in the GPAC?

 

[huskerfan1414]

If our state passes this I will be embarrassed and ashamed. What a bunch of cry-baby CRAP.
And only one reported con? Yeah, non-biased my ass.

 

[Buff-alo]

This makes no sense...just a back handed way to get at the private schools. The last thing we want to do is punish programs for being successful. There are things broken in our system, this is NOT one of them.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Don't punish the successful because some are jealous of their success. This won't pass. For example, after a few years of collecting points, are you really going to make Humphrey St. Francis play 11 man football because they kick the crap out of everyone else?

They wouldn't be able to field a team. That makes 8 man football look worse by kicking the best team out. Let's have the good teams move up so we have a chance? That is some BS.

How about get parents/teachers/coaches and kids involved and make your programs/towns better. Do summer camps, get them in the weight room, make them understand that success is important and attainable if you work hard and get everyone on the same page. You can't have everything handed to you because your not school isn't motivated to do it.

 

[coffeedrinker11]

A little background. I taught in a public school attended a Catholic school growing up. Our public system of education is failing our youth and this proposal is an example of that. The student is not held responsible by his/her parents or the school system for their success or failure. It's always somebody else's fault. You aren't going to state, it's because the private schools have an unfair advantage.

Instead of penalizing success we should ask some questions, find the answers and the solutions. 1-How many students are coming into the successful school from out of their normal enrollment zone?
2-Private schools have a higher participation rate, we should break out the demographics of this. How many that participate come from two parent homes? From single parent homes? From legal guardian homes? Many more questions there but you get the idea.
3-What is the tenure of the head coach at the successful program? What is he/she paid? Other compensation? etc.
4-How much money is spent per student at a school? (my experience says about 30% more at a public school vice private) Does this or other financials issues with the school system affect success?

Then before anything is changed a safety study should be completed. Asking questions like this: Looking at smaller schools playing larger enrollment schools, how many underclassmen/women are playing against upperclassmen/women. Does this change injuries? Is it different in different sports?

These are all quick thoughts done with only the bias that the proposal Rocky has put out is similar to what Indiana used and it was not successful in the eyes of many.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this for the better part of an hour.

First off, the re-classification based upon success is something that I have seen work very well in ASA Junior Olympic Softball. We started out with our little 1,000 population community playing Class C, won that, moved up to Class B, and eventually Class A. I didn't have much of a problem with it when it was a 1 Class bump, but the 2nd bump made it pretty challenging. This has already been addressed in the proposal, so that is good.

Football is just not going to work from Class D-1 to C-2. There are just too many of these small communities that won't have the numbers to play 11 man football.

I don't know the first thing about wrestling, track, or cross country. I have no idea how it would effect these sports.

As far as Basketball, Softball, Volleyball...I don't think the end result would be a whole lot different than it is now.

I applaud the amount of consideration and thought that someone put into this, but there is no way this will pass.

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

I don't think this system will work, however I always love to hear people that talk about how private schools do not have an advantage. I would like to use the word recruiting, however that will get people fired up. I know of a private school this year that called a girl to transfer to play volleyball several times over the summer, there is always understated outrage and/or denial when this happens, but remember Fremont Basketball last year, they had a couple kids transfer into a public school and people were outraged. A private school multiplier makes the most sense.

 

[huskerfan1414]

I don't think this system will work, however I always love to hear people that talk about how private schools do not have an advantage. I would like to use the word recruiting, however that will get people fired up. I know of a private school this year that called a girl to transfer to play volleyball several times over the summer, there is always understated outrage and/or denial when this happens, but remember Fremont Basketball last year, they had a couple kids transfer into a public school and people were outraged. A private school multiplier makes the most sense.

two questions
1) what school was it
2) do you think large public schools recruit, including from private schools?
No, a private school multiplayer does not make any sense, maybe only if you are a jealous, labeling, no-nothing cry baby.

 

[Buff-alo]

Look at any state with a private school multiplier...many articles have been written on it. The multiplier doesn't work.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I don't think this system will work, however I always love to hear people that talk about how private schools do not have an advantage. I would like to use the word recruiting, however that will get people fired up. I know of a private school this year that called a girl to transfer to play volleyball several times over the summer, there is always understated outrage and/or denial when this happens, but remember Fremont Basketball last year, they had a couple kids transfer into a public school and people were outraged. A private school multiplier makes the most sense.

Public schools do it all the time (just like your Fremont example.) Public schools can use parents/coaches/kids on social media to recruit too and you know what else is interesting about public schools? THEY ARE FREE.

People act like some catholic high schools are just paying kids to have them come to their school. Don't worry we don't have state aid but we will pay you to come here to school. Give me a break.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

This is a copy/paste of a post that I wrote over on the Basketball message board awhile back. While it may not be 100% applicable, my basic opinion does apply. The post was in a thread about the whole parochial school debate, but my post really isn't. My opinions are coming from the "other side" of the open enrollment issue. I certainly understand that educational opportunities exist in some other school districts. My opinion stands. I believe that we should all have enough pride in our communities and faith in our school district to have our children educated within them. If we don't, then we should move into a school district in which that pride and faith exists.


The issue that I have with this is pretty simple. Yes, all schools (public or parochial) have students migrate around. Do parochial schools "recruit" players? I suppose they may, but I am not sure how convinced I am that there are in home visits with all of the promising 6th graders throughout the State. I can see more "attracting" than recruiting, but that is really not my point.

My kids are part of a football tradition that is poor to say the least. It doesn't seem to matter what we do, there is no light at the end of the tunnel. We get close to a .500 record on occasion, but really we are a 1 or 2 win per season team and have been for 15 years. Within that, we have some defections. These are public school defections. The defectors opt into another school system, and they make significant contributions on the field for their new teams. To be clear, these are all conference caliber players. Would these players make us 8-1 or 7-2, no. Would these players make us 6-3, absolutely. 6-3 with a token playoff appearance, and pretty soon our numbers increase, we get a little excitement about our program, and who knows?

What about the teams that these kids leave behind? What about Cedar Bluffs? How did they get along without their State Tournament qualifying North Bend Tiger? What about Madison? Madison has managed to bring in a very bright and fresh thinking young head coach. How is Madison getting along without their Humphrey St Francis Flyers on their roster? How is this bright young coach ever going to build his own team and program when 40% of his roster is starting for another team?

I don't believe that the multiplier for parochial schools is really fair, because parochial schools are not the only schools that benefit from kids moving around. I do however believe that there needs to be some way to level the field when these kids choose to defect from one school and participate in sports for another school. In my opinion, it isn't really about punishing the school that brings talent over. It is more about giving the school that loses these kids a concession of some type.

I am fairly active with the American Legion Baseball program in Nebraska. While I do not agree with all of their eligibility rules, there are a few that unquestionably keep the field level in the non-metro areas. If a kid from Madison wants to play Legion Baseball for Battle Creek, Battle Creek gets the player but also picks up the entire enrollment of the Madison school into the classification meeting. If you are going to take one of Madison's best players, that is fine...but you may end up being bumped up a Class in the process. Madison is losing their #1 pitcher. This is a player that the community has invested time and money to develop since he was playing T-Ball. Madison deserves a concession for losing this player.

Now I understand that this type of system gets pretty hairy when applied to football. It could end up bumping 8 man teams up to 11 man. But does it really? How many kids are standing on the sidelines of these perennial powerhouse 8 man football teams. I can tell you that my kids are in a mid-size C-2 school, and we are lucky if we get 25 kids to play. I am by no means an expert, but if my kids have to play 11 man football with 3 kids that would have started both ways playing for another school, why can't an 8-man team that has fleeced the school up the road have to do the same?

Others have talked about the commitment that many of the parochial schools have when it comes to athletics. I absolutely couldn't agree more. These programs get after it, and deserve the success that they have both athletically and in the classroom. My opinions are not directed to parochial schools, but rather all schools.

 

[Yossarian23]

I also believe there is going to need to be some hard guidelines on what exactly qualifies as special education. I know this was brought up in a previous post, but having an IEP and being in Special Ed, are in my opinion, two vastly different things. I think you'd run the risk of not-so-ethical folks erring on the side of IEPs (even for a single subject) which could boost SpEd enrollment and thus deduct a point.

(That's my cynical mind at work)

If you are in Special Ed, you're required by law to have an IEP. They go hand in hand. You don't have an IEP unless you're recognized as being a Special Education student.

What you might be thinking about is a 504 plan...a way to get students the accommodations they need if they don't qualify for Special Education, or if don't need actual altered instruction, just accommodations.

That, or you are trying to say that just because you have an IEP, it does not mean that you're suffering from a disability that would profoundly affect your ability to participate in activities. That is true. It might mean that you have dyslexia, or struggle with decoding, or math calculation.

But, an IEP absolutely means that you are in Special Education.

 

[Mavric]

I read this and want to see if I am reading it correctly. The deducting of points for the things such as special ed, reduced lunch etc., is based on the the current year's 9-12 enrollment. Correct?

If that is the case, I feel this is a somewhat confusing system: We're going to base some of this information (success) on the past 4 years, but then also use information that is only pertinent to this year. And on top of that, we're going to use enrollment numbers of 9-11 to determine classes in football, but current numbers for 9-12 to potentially deduct points for free and reduced lunch.

Am I on an island here thinking this seems off?

I agree that doesn't make sense the way it's written. They would have to be keeping track of those "demographic adjustments" every year and adding them together. Otherwise, the only way a school could get to 19 points would be in the top two four straight years (16 points) and have all three demographic adjustments.

 

[Mavric]

I don't know that I like determining classification based on past success. You could have a couple of good classes bunched together that push your school/sport over the 19 pt limit and while those kids are in college or in careers, your next generation is having to play a class up and cannot compete. I like thinking outside the box to try and make things equitable, but I do not agree with this proposal.

If some sort of multiplier was going to be done, how would you do it other than on past success?

 

[2010Husker]

Couple things:

1. There are other proposals out there for the NSAA that deal with classification as well.

2. There are a ton of things that go into if a school moves up or not, so this may not matter anyway, as the schools I use may not acquire the required points to move up a class. In football I believe the place in a current classification might really hurt some schools that have had success, but not others. Looking at a couple schools I know have had great success over the past 3 or 4 years for as an example. A big school in a class may be just fine moving up a class....Aquinas can compete in C1 just fine (sorry but those 3 extra kids they have this cycle compared to the last how many when they were C2 don't make them successful in C1 now) and Elkhorn South could surely be successful in class A. I think small schools like Oakland-Craig and Aurora would struggle a bit if you made them move up a class because of how much smaller they are then the schools a class above, and depth could be come a major issue when trying to compete with the larger schools.

 

[Mavric]

Look at any state with a private school multiplier..many articles have been written on it. The multiplier doesn't work.

The problem with a straight multiplier is it affects some schools but not others. I don't know what number other states use but I think I've seen something around 1.3 used.

Using that number and the current football classificaiton
Class B: Skutt, Mt. Michael, Roncalli, and Gross are still Class B
Class C1: Concordia/Street and Lakeview move up to B; Boys Town (?), Scotus, Kearney Cath, Neumann, Aquinas, GICC, Lincoln Christian and Norfolk Catholic are unaffected.
Class C2: Lincoln Lutheran, OBT and St. Cecelia move up to C1; Hartington CC, Bergan, St. Pat's and Lutheran High NE are unaffected.
Class D1: Humphrey/LHF, Lourdes and Omaha Christian would be over the line; Elgin/Pope John, and Nebraska Lutheran are unaffected.
Class D2: Sacred Heart and St. Francis move up; St. Mary's and Parkview Christian are unaffected.

Not sure if I caught everyone but that's only 10 out of 30 schools that are affected (if I can count). So I agree that a multiplier isn't really going to have much of an effect.

 

[newsie101]

This might be kind of radical, but how about doing this...

Go back to 4 classes???? Somebody smarter than be can figure the enrollment cut-off numbers.
We don't all need to be winners. The only 'losers' would be the teeshirt companies that print the
"State Qualifier" team teeshirts for all those 2-6 and 3-5 teams that now won't make the playoffs.

 

[runningback43]

I don't think Crofton will like this proposal. Girls cross country and girls basketball would be playing up.

 

[northeastNebraska]

This might be kind of radical, but how about doing this...

Go back to 4 classes???? Somebody smarter than be can figure the enrollment cut-off numbers.
We don't all need to be winners. The only 'losers' would be the teeshirt companies that print the
"State Qualifier" team teeshirts for all those 2-6 and 3-5 teams that now won't make the playoffs.

100% agree.

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

two questions
1) what school was it
2) do you think large public schools recruit, including from private schools?
No, a private school multiplayer does not make any sense, maybe only if you are a jealous, labeling, no-nothing cry baby.

Same old same old. Lets pretend private schools don't have an advantage.

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

Public schools do it all the time (just like your Fremont example.) Public schools can use parents/coaches/kids on social media to recruit too and you know what else is interesting about public schools? THEY ARE FREE.

People act like some catholic high schools are just paying kids to have them come to their school. Don't worry we don't have state aid but we will pay you to come here to school. Give me a break.

Lets not pretend that many student athletes at private schools aren't going for free, public schools are not free, we all pay for them. Many athletes get "scholarships" in order to attend, and private schools do not have to take any/every kid. Let's just try to be realistic.

 

[runningback43]

Lets not pretend that many student athletes at private schools aren't going for free, public schools are not free, we all pay for them. Many athletes get "scholarships" in order to attend, and private schools do not have to take any/every kid. Let's just try to be realistic.

Give us examples of schools that give only athletes scholarships to attend their schools. People that choose private schools over public schools are not only paying taxes for the public school to operate, but are also making donations and paying tuition for children to attend private schools.

Again, provide specific examples of schools that are giving scholarships to only athletes to attend their school for the sole purpose of performing on the field, court, wrestling mat, track or golf course.

 

[newsie101]

Give us examples of schools that give only athletes scholarships to attend their schools. People that choose private schools over public schools are not only paying taxes for the public school to operate, but are also making donations and paying tuition for children to attend private schools.

Again, provide specific examples of schools that are giving scholarships to only athletes to attend their school for the sole purpose of performing on the field, court, wrestling mat, track or golf course.

Don't hold your breath waiting for examples. I've asked people on this board that claim there are students in private schools getting 'scholarships' based on athletics for specific examples for years and have NEVER gotten one example.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Don't hold your breath waiting for examples. I've asked people on this board that claim there are students in private schools getting 'scholarships' based on athletics for specific examples for years and have NEVER gotten one example.

Would it be okay for Public schools to give gas cards to open enrollment students to come to there district from all surrounding districts to help students who transfer to your district off set the cost of travel. Public schools would not have to disclose who gets the gas scholarship or what the qualifications are. This should be fair for them to do this, just like Private schools giving scholarships. I okay with it what say you

 

[STC2010]

Lets not pretend that many student athletes at private schools aren't going for free, public schools are not free, we all pay for them. Many athletes get "scholarships" in order to attend, and private schools do not have to take any/every kid. Let's just try to be realistic.

I teach at St. Cecilia, and we cannot give scholarships. You are correct, we do not have to take any/every kid, but one thing many people might not think about is that we also need to get as many kids through our doors as we can so we can continue operating. Since we do not receive funding from the government, we rely heavily on assistance from local parishes and tuition dollars to cover operating expenses. I can't speak for other parochial schools, but we simply don't have the budget flexibility to provide an education to a student without them also paying tuition to cover the cost of that education.

 

[runningback43]

Would it be okay for Public schools to give gas cards to open enrollment students to come to there district from all surrounding districts to help students who transfer to your district off set the cost of travel. Public schools would not have to disclose who gets the gas scholarship or what the qualifications are. This should be fair for them to do this, just like Private schools giving scholarships. I okay with it what say you

The public school that I attended did not have bus service for the kids that lived out of town. These kids were paid mileage to attend school. I grew up in town and did not receive mileage to attend school, yet my sister who is a special needs student did receive mileage to attend school.

Still looking for specific examples of private schools giving only athletes scholarships to attend schools. Academic scholarships do not count. Please provide examples, or all arguments are mute.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I teach at St. Cecilia, and we cannot give scholarships. You are correct, we do not have to take any/every kid, but one thing many people might not think about is that we also need to get as many kids through our doors as we can so we can continue operating. Since we do not receive funding from the government, we rely heavily on assistance from local parishes and tuition dollars to cover operating expenses. I can't speak for other parochial schools, but we simply don't have the budget flexibility to provide an education to a student without them also paying tuition to cover the cost of that education.

Well I just happen to know STC does give scholarships for tuition from donors and you are correct they do need to promote to get kids in to stay open. Every school should promote their school. We hear anecdotally that many private schools utilize other funding sources to provide tuition assistance to students in need. In Nebraska, more than nine out of 10 of the state’s private schools for which tuition data are available (92 percent) provided some form of tuition assistance. That includes scholarships and a variety of discounts, including multi-family discounts and parishioner discounts. On average, for the 92 schools responding to this item, 36 percent of the student body received financial assistance and the average amount per student was $7,602.

 

[newsie101]

Would it be okay for Public schools to give gas cards to open enrollment students to come to there district from all surrounding districts to help students who transfer to your district off set the cost of travel. Public schools would not have to disclose who gets the gas scholarship or what the qualifications are. This should be fair for them to do this, just like Private schools giving scholarships. I okay with it what say you

Specifics please.

 

[newsie101]

Well I just happen to know STC does give scholarships for tuition from donors and you are correct they do need to promote to get kids in to stay open. Every school should promote their school. We hear anecdotally that many private schools utilize other funding sources to provide tuition assistance to students in need. In Nebraska, more than nine out of 10 of the state’s private schools for which tuition data are available (92 percent) provided some form of tuition assistance. That includes scholarships and a variety of discounts, including multi-family discounts and parishioner discounts. On average, for the 92 schools responding to this item, 36 percent of the student body received financial assistance and the average amount per student was $7,602.

Yes - the 'tuition assistance' is in the form of the Parish budget (for the sake of arguement Sacred Heart/St Mary's) supplementing the school (Sacred Heart Elementary/Norfolk Catholic). The cost of tuition at a private school for the attendee may be $3500 but the actual cost is $7000. So the student/parent pays the $3500 and the parish foots the rest of the bill. EVERY student in the school system therefore gets tuition assistance - not just the 'sports stars'.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Specifics please.

Do't have to give specifics, just like private school dont have to disclose who receives scholarships or tuition breaks, even if they play a NSAA sport or activity

 

[runningback43]

Do't have to give specifics, just like private school dont have to disclose who receives scholarships or tuition breaks, even if they play a NSAA sport or activity

Maybe just maybe the scholarships are based on need and academics, not athletics.

Like I said earlier, without specific examples your arguments are mute.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Maybe just maybe the scholarships are based on need and academics, not athletics.

Like I said earlier, without specific examples your arguments are mute.

Thats the point private schools do not have to specify who or why or what even the qualification are for any tuition breaks, Imagine if the NCAA was run the same way as High school.

 

[newsie101]

Do't have to give specifics, just like private school dont have to disclose who receives scholarships or tuition breaks, even if they play a NSAA sport or activity

So you are really believing - that Private schools - and I don't know of a single one that is NOT hurting for money - is giving 'free' or 'reduced cost education' to some kid based on athletic ability?

 

[huskerfan1414]

It's amazing to me the bitterness toward private schools by those who have zero idea what it takes to run them or how much it costs to run a school.
No athletes are getting scholarships, heck I don't even think there's academic scholarships, at parochial schools, at least the small ones... I can't attest to Creighton Prep for example.
They simply can't afford them, nor can they afford to turn kids away who don't play sports. Simply ridiculous.
It's a story made up by jealous dads who rationalize their sons getting their butts kicked by saying, "yeah they recruit! Yeah they pay players!" It's all a lie. Public schools in this state recruit more than private schools do, I GUARANTEE it, and have no problem with it..what bothers me is people think private schools do it more. Nope. No coaches are sitting in living rooms (or talking to kids, period) offering money to play football. Maybe in Florida, not Nebraska. Sorry it's hard for some of you cry babies to hear that...keep believing the lie if it makes you feel better.

 

[nenebskers]

Aren't we all glad this turned into a "private schools recruit" debate again. Let's move on and get back to the original topic. If you wanna discuss private schools recruiting go start a new thread!

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

Just for the sake of this continuing, lets just all believe that everyone is on a level playing field for sports. Private schools do not have an advantage because they can choose who comes to their school and get kids from other towns, that would otherwise attend the local public school. There are no athletic scholarships given to athletes and it is all about hard work and determination, not an uneven playing field.