Basketball Expanding the state tournament to four days

[northeastNebraska]

Thoughts on expanding the state tournament to a four day event to get out the high schools? It’s grown to such an event the High schools are too small. Plus kids played 24+ plus games, they deserve to play in big arenas the entire tournament. Something like...

2018 Tourney

Wednesday
Bob Devaney
Class D2: 9:00, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA
Class C2: 9:00, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA and The Bob (Depends on seeding)
Class B: 7:00 and 8:45

Thursday
Bob Devaney
Class D1: 9:00 AM, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA
Class C1: 9:00, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA and the Bob (Depends on seeding)
Class A: 7:00 and 8:45

Friday
Bob Devaney
Class D2 9:00 and 10:45
Class D1 2:00 and 3:45
Class C2 7:00 and 8:45

PBA
Class C1 9:00 and 10:45
Class B 2:00 and 3:45
Class A 7:00 and 8:45

Finals leave as they are on Saturday.

You could rotate classes each year to see what classes get the one day break. Saying they did it this year, D2, C2 and B get the break. Next year D1, C1 and A would get the day off.

 

[loveD2football]

No good no games on Wednesday or Sunday for religious reasons.

 

[northeastNebraska]

No good no games on Wednesday or Sunday for religious reasons.

The amount of players on the teams it would effect would be very small. The first games could be played on a Wednesday.

The only hold up I thought of is hotels. Would be more expensive, but getting out of the High schools would make the tourney more fun. Plus the growth of overall attendance keeps growing. They’ll have to do something soon.

 

[nenebskers]

Thoughts on expanding the state tournament to a four day event to get out the high schools? It’s grown to such an event the High schools are too small. Plus kids played 24+ plus games, they deserve to play in big arenas the entire tournament. Something like...

2018 Tourney

Wednesday
Bob Devaney
Class D2: 9:00, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA
Class C2: 9:00, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA and The Bob (Depends on seeding)
Class B: 7:00 and 8:45

Thursday
Bob Devaney
Class D1: 9:00 AM, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA
Class C1: 9:00, 10:45, 2:00, 3:45

PBA and the Bob (Depends on seeding)
Class A: 7:00 and 8:45

Friday
Bob Devaney
Class D2 9:00 and 10:45
Class D1 2:00 and 3:45
Class C2 7:00 and 8:45

PBA
Class C1 9:00 and 10:45
Class B 2:00 and 3:45
Class A 7:00 and 8:45

Finals leave as they are on Saturday.

You could rotate classes each year to see what classes get the one day break. Saying they did it this year, D2, C2 and B get the break. Next year D1, C1 and A would get the day off.

Could a 4 or 5 class system be played at two sites over three days? Maybe with 5 classes have A and B play on Wednesday then C1, C2, and D on Thursday. 6 classes is just too many, C2, D1, and D2 is just so watered down anymore due to coops and consolidations, especially D2.

 

[Southernblood]

No good no games on Wednesday or Sunday for religious reasons.

Softball played championships in October on a Wednesday. Class A Volleyball districts were on a Wednesday. 8-man played a round on a Wednesday. Class D1 & D2 play production championships were on a Wednesday. A & D Track Districts are on a Wednesday this year.

I'm sure I'm missing other examples, but Wednesdays are clearly not off-limits.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Could a 4 or 5 class system be played at two sites over three days? Maybe with 5 classes have A and B play on Wednesday then C1, C2, and D on Thursday. 6 classes is just too many, C2, D1, and D2 is just so watered down anymore due to coops and consolidations, especially D2.

I agree. I would like to see one Class D. Enrollments under 75 play Class D. Which would be all of classes D1 and D2 except Heartland, Franklin and Blue Hill.

 

[sportsjunkie2030]

I don't like the 4-day idea, but I do think they need to move out of high schools. If it takes making it a 4-day tourney then so be it, I know 3 days itself can get expensive on the school's end and as a spectator the 3 days don't necessarily fly by. There are pro's and con's to all of this but something needs to change in the near future.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I don't like the 4-day idea, but I do think they need to move out of high schools. If it takes making it a 4-day tourney then so be it, I know 3 days itself can get expensive on the school's end and as a spectator the 3 days don't necessarily fly by. There are pro's and con's to all of this but something needs to change in the near future.

I just think with the growing number of attendance they have to get out of the high schools. Making it a four day tourney is cheaper than building a new arena.

 

[Commissioner-1985]

I agree. I would like to see one Class D. Enrollments under 75 play Class D. Which would be all of classes D1 and D2 except Heartland, Franklin and Blue Hill.

Why okay for 8 of 28 or 8 of 32 in A and B but you think only 8 of 100+ schools in D is okay?

 

[nenebskers]

Why okay for 8 of 28 or 8 of 32 in A and B but you think only 8 of 100+ schools in D is okay?

Why not?

I never said 8 out of 28 in A or 32 in B and 8 out of 100+ in D. That is your assumption only.

But for arguements sake let's go with that line of thinking. Very common in most states that not all classifications are the same size. The smaller the enrollments typically the larger the number of schools in the classification. Before the state of Nebraska went to the 6 class system the smaller classes were that large. The first year Nebraska went to the 6 class system Class D1 and D2 were more likely closer to 100 schools then they are to the current size of 55 schools. The largest factor is enrollment gaps. Look at the top and bottom end of enrollments in class C2, D1, and D2. Then look at enrollment gaps in A and B. Bottomline is there is not much differance at all in a class D1 vs D2 school. Pretty silly that there are two classes.

Think of it this way, if you only had the current schools, geographic area, etc, and no knowledge of history do you think a committee would ever sit down together and draw up our current class structure? I highly doubt they would. Bottomline is people dont like change.

Sorry Northeast, not trying to make this topic about class size but I just did. Good topic to pose about 4 day event. I think 4 days would be tough with current structure as some small schools from out West would potentially have to travel Tuesday and stay all the way till Saturday. If we had less classes I think it may be more feasible in that class A could play on Wednesday then have Thursday off with all other classes starting of Thursday. Lincoln is just one quality venue short. Omaha would be great with Century Link, Ralston, and Baxter but man that is a haul for the Western schools.

 

[tr50]

4 day tournament should have been done years ago. Playing a quarterfinal game at Lincoln East is not much of a reward for qualifying for state.

 

[scrapper14]

Something no one has discussed......4 days out of actual school. The Student/Athlete part of this is the reason this won't work. For example, last year both Dundy County-Stratton girls and boys both qualified for the tournament. They would have to leave on Tuesday for their Wednesday games. Over a 2 week period (10 School days) they would be in school for 2 of those. School comes first.

 

[nenebskers]

Something no one has discussed......4 days out of actual school. The Student/Athlete part of this is the reason this won't work. For example, last year both Dundy County-Stratton girls and boys both qualified for the tournament. They would have to leave on Tuesday for their Wednesday games. Over a 2 week period (10 School days) they would be in school for 2 of those. School comes first.

If a four day tourney would transpire I don't believe small schools would be in Lincoln for four days of competition. The best route would be to have A go on Wednesday since the majority are within an hour drive of Lincoln. But having only A go on Wednesday would only work if we had a 4 or possibly 5 class system.

 

[sportsjunkie2030]

4 day tournament should have been done years ago. Playing a quarterfinal game at Lincoln East is not much of a reward for qualifying for state.

Speaking on experience, the first round venue isn’t of much importance. It’s more the atmosphere. Small town kids don’t get to experience the type of atmosphere Lincoln provides, even if it’s at a local high school.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Speaking on experience, the first round venue isn’t of much importance. It’s more the atmosphere. Small town kids don’t get to experience the type of atmosphere Lincoln provides, even if it’s at a local high school.

I agree. I believe they do a great job with the tools they have to work with. And another thing, let's all be honest here. Winnebago is really the only school that has significantly disrupted the current system. I have been to several 1st round games, and gym size was of little concern.

If there is concern, then have Winnebago play in PBA or Devaney as long as they are in it...in the event that they make it again.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Why not?

Bottomline is there is not much differance at all in a class D1 vs D2 school. Pretty silly that there are two classes.

Think of it this way, if you only had the current schools, geographic area, etc, and no knowledge of history do you think a committee would ever sit down together and draw up our current class structure? I highly doubt they would. Bottomline is people dont like change.

Excellent point. There is no way we have 6 classes if this thing was mapped out today.

 

[runningback43]

Maybe Nebraska should only have 5 classes.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Maybe Nebraska should only have 5 classes.

Or 4 quite honestly. There is way too much emphasis placed on enrollment when it comes to basketball (in my opinion). When we get to the top end of C-1 and C-2, I don't see there to be THAT much of a difference...especially when you consider that a 4 Class system would pull some of the bigger Class C schools up to Class B. Same thing for D-1 to D-2. A few of the bigger ones move up to C, and then there just really isn't that much difference at the top end.

I believe that we are trying too hard to hand out more trophies and medals.

 

[runningback43]

Four works for me.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Four works for me.

I’m in favor of going back to 4 as well. 6 is way too many.

 

[trackman77]

I agree. Four is a good number for basketball as well as volleyball. Football is a far more difficult scenario.

 

[runningback43]

I agree with trackman. Four would work pretty well in basketball and volleyball. Four is the number for track, and cross country.

 

[TC53]

State games have been played on Wednesdays in the 70s and 80s. No problem there. I'm a 'time to return to 4 classes' guy though.

 

[just_average32]

I disagree with shrinking the number of classes. It seems people want this out of convenience for the media and fans. Wrestling, Track, and Cross Country makes sense to have four classes because they are individual sports that have a team scoring component. Qualified individuals still have a legitimate chance to win a state championship individually. Changing Volleyball and Basketball to four classes just for the convenience of running a tournament and to make it "tougher" because you think it's watered down seems like you're making a decision not in the best interest of the kids. I know basketball and volleyball are a more competitive environment than football from an enrollment standpoint because you're only using 5-6 players instead of 11 or 22 players, but enrollment still matters. If you shrink the number of classes, all you're doing is growing the distance between the top of the class to the bottom of the class. If you're argument is to have more competitive games at the state tournament, wouldn't it make sense to add more classes to make those enrollments closer and have more competitive games that way? Adding more teams to a class doesn't automatically make it more competitive at the top like you think it would.

Your "watered down" problem could be fixed if all classes went to a sub-state format or a true serpentine district seeding method to try and make sure you have the best teams make it to state. Doing districts geographically doesn't get the best teams to state. Unfortunately, there are a lot of schools/districts in the NSAA that don't like that because of "travel" or "expense", but every year we end up with loaded districts and districts that are just taking a sport from a more deserving team.

For example, in C2 this year, there are 4 of the top 16 teams in power points in sub-district C2-9: Arcadia-Loup City (3rd), South Loup (4th), Ravenna (11th), and Amherst (16th). Then there are Cambridge (8th) and Dundy County-Stratton (19th) on the other side of the district in C2-10. Then in sub-districts C2-11 & C2-12, you have Bridgeport (21st) as the highest in power points out of either sub-district. A less deserving team in that district final could steal a spot from Elmwood-Murdock vs Yutan vs Freeman loser, Arcadia-Loup City vs South Loup loser, or BRLD vs Lutheran High NE vs Oakland-Craig loser. And this happens every year in multiple classes.

To me, fixing this issue ^^^ is a more pressing issue than making this a four day state tournament, or shrinking the number of classes, just to make sure all the games are played at the PBA or the Bob. Kids are wanting a fair shot to win a state championship, not boost tv ratings (I say this tongue in cheek) or please the average basketball fan that attends the state tournament. I don't know why schools or fans bring up the expense issue. If it gives me a fair chance to win a spot in the state tournament or a chance to play for a state championship, I'm willing to sacrifice a couple hundred dollars for gas. A kid's education will be more disrupted by getting slighted out of a fair chance at state tournament appearance than by staying out late for competing for a district championship. Just my opinion I guess.

 

[trackman77]

I disagree with shrinking the number of classes. It seems people want this out of convenience for the media and fans. Wrestling, Track, and Cross Country makes sense to have four classes because they are individual sports that have a team scoring component. Qualified individuals still have a legitimate chance to win a state championship individually. Changing Volleyball and Basketball to four classes just for the convenience of running a tournament and to make it "tougher" because you think it's watered down seems like you're making a decision not in the best interest of the kids. I know basketball and volleyball are a more competitive environment than football from an enrollment standpoint because you're only using 5-6 players instead of 11 or 22 players, but enrollment still matters. If you shrink the number of classes, all you're doing is growing the distance between the top of the class to the bottom of the class. If you're argument is to have more competitive games at the state tournament, wouldn't it make sense to add more classes to make those enrollments closer and have more competitive games that way? Adding more teams to a class doesn't automatically make it more competitive at the top like you think it would.

Your "watered down" problem could be fixed if all classes went to a sub-state format or a true serpentine district seeding method to try and make sure you have the best teams make it to state. Doing districts geographically doesn't get the best teams to state. Unfortunately, there are a lot of schools/districts in the NSAA that don't like that because of "travel" or "expense", but every year we end up with loaded districts and districts that are just taking a sport from a more deserving team.

For example, in C2 this year, there are 4 of the top 16 teams in power points in sub-district C2-9: Arcadia-Loup City (3rd), South Loup (4th), Ravenna (11th), and Amherst (16th). Then there are Cambridge (8th) and Dundy County-Stratton (19th) on the other side of the district in C2-10. Then in sub-districts C2-11 & C2-12, you have Bridgeport (21st) as the highest in power points out of either sub-district. A less deserving team in that district final could steal a spot from Elmwood-Murdock vs Yutan vs Freeman loser, Arcadia-Loup City vs South Loup loser, or BRLD vs Lutheran High NE vs Oakland-Craig loser. And this happens every year in multiple classes.

To me, fixing this issue ^^^ is a more pressing issue than making this a four day state tournament, or shrinking the number of classes, just to make sure all the games are played at the PBA or the Bob. Kids are wanting a fair shot to win a state championship, not boost tv ratings (I say this tongue in cheek) or please the average basketball fan that attends the state tournament. I don't know why schools or fans bring up the expense issue. If it gives me a fair chance to win a spot in the state tournament or a chance to play for a state championship, I'm willing to sacrifice a couple hundred dollars for gas. A kid's education will be more disrupted by getting slighted out of a fair chance at state tournament appearance than by staying out late for competing for a district championship. Just my opinion I guess.

First of all basketball, volleyball and football are every bit as much an individual sport as the sports that you mentioned (wrestling, track, cross country) All are based on individual successes that lead to "team" success. There are cases in both groups of sports where only one or two individuals are so dominate that they outwardly seem to be "a one person" team"

But even those that don't qualify for state in your so called individual sports helped to develop and create the great team/athlete. Just as the kids that never get off the bench and never set foot on the field or floor helped to make their teams better. So lets not use the old mentality of they don't need other classes or to be looked at the same because they are not a team sport.

Finally, no matter where you look in any sport you are going to find someone who thinks "its not fair" because our district was tougher than yours. A State qualifier is a great honor in any activity, but if we really want to get down to the real reason for having a State Tournament it is to crown a State Champion. Rarely, if ever, would a team/individual talented enough to win a State Championship be left out of the loop. IMO

 

[just_average32]

First of all basketball, volleyball and football are every bit as much an individual sport as the sports that you mentioned (wrestling, track, cross country) All are based on individual successes that lead to "team" success. There are cases in both groups of sports where only one or two individuals are so dominate that they outwardly seem to be "a one person" team"

But even those that don't qualify for state in your so called individual sports helped to develop and create the great team/athlete. Just as the kids that never get off the bench and never set foot on the field or floor helped to make their teams better. So lets not use the old mentality of they don't need other classes or to be looked at the same because they are not a team sport.

Finally, no matter where you look in any sport you are going to find someone who thinks "its not fair" because our district was tougher than yours. A State qualifier is a great honor in any activity, but if we really want to get down to the real reason for having a State Tournament it is to crown a State Champion. Rarely, if ever, would a team/individual talented enough to win a State Championship be left out of the loop. IMO

I don't win a state championship for averaging the most points per game as a basketball player. I win a state championship when my team has more points than the other team. In wrestling, track/CC, I can win individual state championships. That in turns leads to team points, which leads to a team championship. I know there is coaching and scheming to win state championships as a team in those sports, but ultimately those sports focus on PRs. I don't think a volleyball team has a mentality of going in to PR in kills and win a state championship on most kills in a season. Do individual successes lead to team success, you bet, you just don't get a medal for specifically doing that.

And as far as my point about a fair chance, that was me saying in response to others saying we have bad or watered down teams at state. We can fix this by taking the best teams seeding through districts by power points and not on geography. We have a chance to fix that problem. We are talking about a bad call hosing a team out of state, or an injury derailing a season. This is a formality that can be avoided so you don't have 3-4 top 10 teams ending up in the same district. Don't just say "life's not fair. sorry." I don't think it's unrealistic that we can have a true/fair state tournament. It doesn't happen because the people that benefit from it won't vote to change it. There are teams that wanted to get rid of sub-state in volleyball and go back to the way it was. I'm sure there are a lot of people in a lot places all of the state that saw teams that should have made it state but didn't. Just because it's rare doesn't mean that you should just forget about it. Maybe most people won't care I guess until it's their team that gets left out. If I'm South Loup, Yutan, Cambridge, or BRLD, I'd drive to any location in the state of Nebraska for a chance at going to the state tournament, especially if it meant I had a fair shot at making it. I don't know, maybe I don't make sense. Maybe it is a terrible idea. I guess we should just have South Sioux City, Lexington, Columbus, Ralston, and Hastings join Class A so we have better state tournament games in Class A. and everyone can play at PBA and Devaney so fans can see more of the games.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

I disagree with shrinking the number of classes. It seems people want this out of convenience for the media and fans. Wrestling, Track, and Cross Country makes sense to have four classes because they are individual sports that have a team scoring component. Qualified individuals still have a legitimate chance to win a state championship individually. Changing Volleyball and Basketball to four classes just for the convenience of running a tournament and to make it "tougher" because you think it's watered down seems like you're making a decision not in the best interest of the kids. I know basketball and volleyball are a more competitive environment than football from an enrollment standpoint because you're only using 5-6 players instead of 11 or 22 players, but enrollment still matters. If you shrink the number of classes, all you're doing is growing the distance between the top of the class to the bottom of the class. If you're argument is to have more competitive games at the state tournament, wouldn't it make sense to add more classes to make those enrollments closer and have more competitive games that way? Adding more teams to a class doesn't automatically make it more competitive at the top like you think it would.

Your "watered down" problem could be fixed if all classes went to a sub-state format or a true serpentine district seeding method to try and make sure you have the best teams make it to state. Doing districts geographically doesn't get the best teams to state. Unfortunately, there are a lot of schools/districts in the NSAA that don't like that because of "travel" or "expense", but every year we end up with loaded districts and districts that are just taking a sport from a more deserving team.

For example, in C2 this year, there are 4 of the top 16 teams in power points in sub-district C2-9: Arcadia-Loup City (3rd), South Loup (4th), Ravenna (11th), and Amherst (16th). Then there are Cambridge (8th) and Dundy County-Stratton (19th) on the other side of the district in C2-10. Then in sub-districts C2-11 & C2-12, you have Bridgeport (21st) as the highest in power points out of either sub-district. A less deserving team in that district final could steal a spot from Elmwood-Murdock vs Yutan vs Freeman loser, Arcadia-Loup City vs South Loup loser, or BRLD vs Lutheran High NE vs Oakland-Craig loser. And this happens every year in multiple classes.

To me, fixing this issue ^^^ is a more pressing issue than making this a four day state tournament, or shrinking the number of classes, just to make sure all the games are played at the PBA or the Bob. Kids are wanting a fair shot to win a state championship, not boost tv ratings (I say this tongue in cheek) or please the average basketball fan that attends the state tournament. I don't know why schools or fans bring up the expense issue. If it gives me a fair chance to win a spot in the state tournament or a chance to play for a state championship, I'm willing to sacrifice a couple hundred dollars for gas. A kid's education will be more disrupted by getting slighted out of a fair chance at state tournament appearance than by staying out late for competing for a district championship. Just my opinion I guess.

I get your point about District assignments (and agree) but that is a completely different topic.

Maybe we should follow your logic, and go to 8 or 10 classes. Then we can give out even MORE State Champion trophies.

I am sorry, but I really don't see a need for more than 4 classes. I know that will leave some teams out, but I just don't see the need.

So, let's look at Class C-2, since you brought them up. If you look at the Top 10 teams in Power Points as of right now, you will find the following for their enrollment ranking within the Class.
1-3rd
2-7th
3-17th
4-52nd
5-10th
6-11th
7-28th
8-24th
9-36th
10-8th

That makes their AVERAGE Enrollment ranking 19.6. There is absolutely no correlation between school size and ranking. If there were, we would see that AVERAGE look more like 12 or 13.

Or better yet, we could go all Hoosier's on this thread and go to 1 Class. You are a State Champion...or you are not. 1 State, 1 Champion. Just kidding.

 

[just_average32]

I get your point about District assignments (and agree) but that is a completely different topic.

Maybe we should follow your logic, and go to 8 or 10 classes. Then we can give out even MORE State Champion trophies.

I am sorry, but I really don't see a need for more than 4 classes. I know that will leave some teams out, but I just don't see the need.

So, let's look at Class C-2, since you brought them up. If you look at the Top 10 teams in Power Points as of right now, you will find the following for their enrollment ranking within the Class.
1-3rd
2-7th
3-17th
4-52nd
5-10th
6-11th
7-28th
8-24th
9-36th
10-8th

That makes their AVERAGE Enrollment ranking 19.6. There is absolutely no correlation between school size and ranking. If there were, we would see that AVERAGE look more like 12 or 13.

Or better yet, we could go all Hoosier's on this thread and go to 1 Class. You are a State Champion...or you are not. 1 State, 1 Champion. Just kidding.

I'm not really for having more classes, I'm just against shrinking it down to 4 for no reason other than people wanting all the games at PBA or Devaney. I only brought up making more classes to make teams more competitive which would solve the problem having a watered down team at state vs good team. Shrinking classes wouldn't help. I think 6 classes is fine. You can go ahead and act like enrollment isn't a factor but it would be. South Loup completely drags down the average, and their schedule is filled with 16 games that are D1/D2 teams (which i'm sure are more in line with their enrollment). If you shrunk the classes to four, you're disparity would be greater. Are there exceptions and smaller enrollment schools able to win out? Yeah, of course there is. There will be fewer if you shrink the classes to 4. Everyone loves the Hoosiers story because it's a rare story. Rare for a reason. To tangent off that point, I think it would be cool to sort of build on that, and create a champion of champions bracket, and have all the state champions play out a bracket and find out a true state champion. That could be cool.

My point is: don't shrink to four classes because you want to play at PBA. If shrinking it would be better for the athletes in Nebraska, I'd be for it. I'm not about to hand out trophies for everyone (I personally think they should get rid of the 3rd place NSAA money grab game), but I'm also not going to be the tough guy and keep a high school sport from being about the kids instead of some old guy claiming "back in my day we played 100 other C schools." I think there are tweaks to the current system (with districts/power points) that could make it better. To the original point of a four day tournament, if you want everyone to play at PBA and Devaney, then go to a four day tournament. But don't just say, "That's dumb, it's Wednesday. Let's instead shrink to four classes so it works out better"

 

[nenebskers]

I'm not really for having more classes, I'm just against shrinking it down to 4 for no reason other than people wanting all the games at PBA or Devaney. I only brought up making more classes to make teams more competitive which would solve the problem having a watered down team at state vs good team. Shrinking classes wouldn't help. I think 6 classes is fine. You can go ahead and act like enrollment isn't a factor but it would be. South Loup completely drags down the average, and their schedule is filled with 16 games that are D1/D2 teams (which i'm sure are more in line with their enrollment). If you shrunk the classes to four, you're disparity would be greater. Are there exceptions and smaller enrollment schools able to win out? Yeah, of course there is. There will be fewer if you shrink the classes to 4. Everyone loves the Hoosiers story because it's a rare story. Rare for a reason. To tangent off that point, I think it would be cool to sort of build on that, and create a champion of champions bracket, and have all the state champions play out a bracket and find out a true state champion. That could be cool.

My point is: don't shrink to four classes because you want to play at PBA. If shrinking it would be better for the athletes in Nebraska, I'd be for it. I'm not about to hand out trophies for everyone (I personally think they should get rid of the 3rd place NSAA money grab game), but I'm also not going to be the tough guy and keep a high school sport from being about the kids instead of some old guy claiming "back in my day we played 100 other C schools." I think there are tweaks to the current system (with districts/power points) that could make it better. To the original point of a four day tournament, if you want everyone to play at PBA and Devaney, then go to a four day tournament. But don't just say, "That's dumb, it's Wednesday. Let's instead shrink to four classes so it works out better"

This thread was originally about a four day tournament/improving the state tournament. I believe that most, if not all, who would like to see a four classification system for all sports except football have many other reasons in addition to the lone one or two you pointed out. For me at least, a better state tournament is one of many reasons and down on the list as far as importance of why a four class system is preffered. It certainly would be a benefit however.

For any that remember that far back, when Nebraska changed to current 6 class system in the early 80's how big of a deal was it back then? What are proposals were considered? Same questions go for when they shrunk class B.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

The tournament, much like Wrestling, has outgrown Lincoln. Move it to Omaha. Plus, in a bigger area, the price gouging that happens so blatantly in Lincoln isn't nearly as prevalent.

 

[HappyTrail3200]

The tournament, much like Wrestling, has outgrown Lincoln. Move it to Omaha. Plus, in a bigger area, the price gouging that happens so blatantly in Lincoln isn't nearly as prevalent.

Isn't there just the same amount of arenas in Omaha as there is in Lincoln? Sure the Century Link Center may be bigger than PBA, but Ralston Arena has the capacity of some high schools probably. You're still running into the same "not enough floors" problem you had in Lincoln. As for "blatant price gouging" in Lincoln, I'm not so sure about that, seems like it costs just as much to park in Lincoln during those times as it is for similar events, even cheaper than some concerts that happen in town.

 

[runningback43]

Nebraska's population doesn't support having 6 classes. I doubt the population ever supported having 6 classes. Does anybody know how many classes Colorado, Kansas, Iowa or Missouri have?

 

[nenebskers]

Isn't there just the same amount of arenas in Omaha as there is in Lincoln? Sure the Century Link Center may be bigger than PBA, but Ralston Arena has the capacity of some high schools probably. You're still running into the same "not enough floors" problem you had in Lincoln. As for "blatant price gouging" in Lincoln, I'm not so sure about that, seems like it costs just as much to park in Lincoln during those times as it is for similar events, even cheaper than some concerts that happen in town.

Ralston Arena's seating capacity for basketball according to their website is 4,691. Baxter is 7,898. DJ Sokul is 2,950.

 

[runningback43]

Ralston Arena's seating capacity for basketball according to their website is 4,691. Baxter is 7,898. DJ Sokul is 2,950.

I think that's larger than any high school in Lincoln.

 

[nenebskers]

Nebraska's population doesn't support having 6 classes. I doubt the population ever supported having 6 classes. Does anybody know how many classes Colorado, Kansas, Iowa or Missouri have?

Iowa has 4, Kansas and Missouri 6, not sure of Colorado.

For perspective, this year there are 284 teams in boys basketball. 56 teams or 19%, compete in D2. D2 has enrollments of 55 and less. If D1 and D2 were combined, there would be 112 teams or 39% with enrollments of 76 or less.

Iowa has 366 schools in boys basketball this year. They have four classifications. 147 schools, 40% total, compete in 1A, their smallest classification. 1A includes schools with a 3 year enrollment of 151 and less.

Kansas has 6 classifications for 352 schools. They have many larger schools in the A-B range (our classifications) than Nebraska because of Wichita, Kansas City, Topeka, etc.. Their smallest class, 1A, has 97 schools or 28%, with enrollments of 92 and less.

Bottomline is we are a very rural state outside of Omaha and Lincoln. We have an extremely large ratio of small schools. Every state is differant. What works for one state doesnt neccessarily work for another. With that said though there is no denying that our smaller classes are "watered down", especially in D2.

 

[nenebskers]

I think that's larger than any high school in Lincoln.

I would think so as well. Personally, outside of the games at the high schools, Im a huge fan of keeping it in Lincoln because of the atmosphere which I think would be partially lost if in Omaha.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I would think so as well. Personally, outside of the games at the high schools, Im a huge fan of keeping it in Lincoln because of the atmosphere which I think would be partially lost if in Omaha.

Agree. I like Omaha for the arenas but I feel like some of he magic would be lost.

But a four class system in basketball and a six class system in football is how I would like to see Nebraska laid out.

11 man: Class A, B, C1

9 man: Class C2 (on a regular sized field.)

8 man: Class D1

6 man: Class D2

 

[hailvictors2]

The tournament, much like Wrestling, has outgrown Lincoln. Move it to Omaha. Plus, in a bigger area, the price gouging that happens so blatantly in Lincoln isn't nearly as prevalent.

I have no dog in this fight, but let’s be clear about one thing....Wrestling never outgrew Lincoln. The Devaney was 10x the atmosphere of the Century Link. Moving it to Omaha was a catastrophic mistake.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

I would think so as well. Personally, outside of the games at the high schools, Im a huge fan of keeping it in Lincoln because of the atmosphere which I think would be partially lost if in Omaha.

I think that is a valid concern, but I don't feel is warranted. Wrestling went through the same angst. It was obvious that Devaney didn't work, but "losing all that tradition..." scared a lot of folks. Today? There is ZERO movement, that I'm aware of to take Wrestling back to Lincoln. I don't even hear any, even the slightest, buzz, about it from wrestling people. Omaha has better facilities, dining, entertainment, and so on. It checks every single box. If BB would go to Omaha with the nice arenas, in addition to everything else...it would never go back.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

Isn't there just the same amount of arenas in Omaha as there is in Lincoln? Sure the Century Link Center may be bigger than PBA, but Ralston Arena has the capacity of some high schools probably. You're still running into the same "not enough floors" problem you had in Lincoln. As for "blatant price gouging" in Lincoln, I'm not so sure about that, seems like it costs just as much to park in Lincoln during those times as it is for similar events, even cheaper than some concerts that happen in town.

No. Quality floorspace in the Big O far surpasses that of Lincoln. As far as the gouging, the biggest single gripe with that is lodging. Omaha has enough, spread out enough, that the competition tends to keep prices more reasonable, IMO. Omaha is pretty good at hosting things. Lincoln, outside of the Huskers, is a one-trick pony. And the traffic...Omaha, to me, is far, far easier to get around, despite it's much larger size.