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So Buff you are saying Free & reduced lunch, and esl kids can't play sports. Because using this argument, that is what you are saying. It is clear you are not drinking cool aid..but you should lay off the spirits...
BTW my kids went to public schools. I went to catholic. I am very familiar with both. There is no recruiting. They have free and reduced lunch kids and ESL kids.
This happens in public schools as well, and it's easier to do at a public school because those parents don't have to pay for tuition. Believe me, saw it happen when I was in high school at my school and other schools.Private schools do recruit. No, it's not done by the school or administrators directly. Actually, in many cases, I don't even think the school has any knowledge of it. It's done by the parents/boosters. I've seen this happen. 3 or 4 of our students and their parents surrounded by booster members of a different school at a local restaurant. An e-mail sent to the parent of an elementary student from a parent/volunteer assistant coach of the other school saying that it would be great for their kid to come play at the private school because they will win championships there.
Well than public schools need to do a better job of getting kids out like Norfolk Catholic does. Don't fault Catholic for public schools lack of awareness and lack of effort to get kids out.There needs to be a multiplier since having the private schools form their own playoffs isn't an option because of the geography of the schools. A way higher % of private schools student body participates in sports, this is where the true advantage takes place. Schools like NC and Aquinas having 55-65 players on a roster doesn't happen at public schools the same size. The quality of kid is way higher on average at a private schools. The parents care more, they are paying for their kid to go there. I really hope the NSAA gets something done with this. I don't want to take away from the accomplishments from our private schools but they do have a competitive advantage over public schools their same size, especially in the smaller classes. Year in year out this proves to be true.
This. The NSAA has bigger fish to fry than this issue.Utilitywood, how would you handle the Lindsey HF/Humphrey coop and Elgin/Pope John? Also, what about 8man schools that get pushed to 11 man and even with their large % of participation are now at a disadvantage. Lastly, do you think Omaha South, South Sioux, Lexington, etc...should be multiplied in because of their high levels of particpation in soccer compared to other schools? Just asking you directly because your the last to post.
In my mind were only discussing a hand full of schools that have a perceived advantage....Norfolk Catholic, Columbus Scotus, Fremont Bergen, Hastings St Cecelia, Kearney Catholic, GICC, and maybe Wahoo Neumen and DC Aquanis. Many of these would not be affected by a 1.34 multiplier and would remain in the same class. Too me the NSAA has other bigger matters to deal with then a handful of schools success.
So just because a coach or team (public or private) has developed a culture that draws more students to participate in a certain sport, they should be punished?I would like to see a system based upon a number of player participants versus size of school. Declare your participant number for 2 year cycle and then classify and make schedules. That's the problem more than the public/private thing. Private schools most generally have the larger roster sizes. People who know football understand its a numbers game and the more kids you have out the better your chance for success is. Scheduling could be a little tricky but I think it could get done. The blowouts and safety concerns would be helped by this. Enrollment numbers really do mean nothing. The classifications should be based upon your participants, not your enrollment number.
Agree that is all about developing a culture like Norfolk Catholic has....It's just easier to build that culture at a private school than at a public school because of the type of students walking through your doors. Most private school students are highly motivated individuals that went to their private school of choice because of what the school has to offer them. They are most of the time students that are academically or athletically motivated and want to be active in as many things as possible. Therefore the quantity of these students is much greater at a private school. As stated in many of those articles posted by Ponch7138 earlier, Public schools typically have between 30 to 35 percent of their student population that are not active in activities, this is a nation wide norm. Where that number is typically closer to 100% in a private school. Not impossible to build that culture at public schools, just two totally different subsets of students and completely opposite situations. It's easier to build successful programs when you have 100 of 100 students involved and not 65 to 70 out of 100 students involved. That participation number is not always the fault of the public school. There are so many factors that impact that number they are too numerous to list. As someone stated earlier, if I'm paying $5000 a year for my kid to go to private school then they damn well better make the most of it. That is the nature of the beast, right or wrong. It will never change, this conversation will go on forever and never be resolved. Let's just not sit here and compare public and private like they are under the exact same situations and the chances at success are equal. Obviously this is being looked at nationwide because the success rate of private schools is much higher. There is an advantage, it will never be fair. So deal with it, and if you are a public school, make sure you enjoy your success when you have it, because as we know in small town public schools it's a roller coaster ride.Well than public schools need to do a better job of getting kids out like Norfolk Catholic does. Don't fault Catholic for public schools lack of awareness and lack of effort to get kids out.
2Please help me understand. Not real knowledgeable in this realm.
Many kids have learning disabilities that are not severely disabled and/or autistic. I fully understand that severely disabled and/or autistic kids will not help a schools athletic teams out but how about a kid with ADD or ADHD? They can and do compete in athletics, correct? Are they at a disadvantage, other then mentally, to not succeed? If at a disadvantage mentally, how would ADD or ADHD affect an athlete?
Lastly, at a C1 school with a 3 year enrollment around 200, what is a realistic estimate on the high end of how many kids are not able to participate because of a disability?
Exactly. Same could be said for Howells , Dodge, Bancroft-Rosalie in the 2000's. They ran over everyone in Classes D1 and D2 in all sports, should they have been subjected to a multiplier?McCook and Aurora are two of the best Class B football teams year in and year out. Do they have an unfair advantage? Would they also be subjected to a multiplier? How about Elkhorn South?
I know girls basketball isn't football. How about Crofton in girls basketball? They've won a ton of state championships in a row. Do they have an unfair advantage?
I started in a private school myself and finished in a public school....yes "religion" is a factor, but let's be realistic and honest here, athletics and academics usually take priority over "religion" in a lot of cases. I'm in agreement that a multiplier will only punish a private school. Yes they have an advantage, it is what it is, deal with it people. You all hit the nail on the head with the fact that private schools have parents, alumni, and administration that care which helps them succeed. That's not always the case in a public school. Coaches can't control parents who don't care...hell most of the time they don't care about their own damn kid, and that is what is really sad. So it's that public schools coach's fault? As far as "poor" students in private and public school....not even comparable, yeah private schools might have a few that alumni/boosters have helped get in. But public schools deal with this issue way more. Some of them do contribute greatly to their schools, but more often than not they don't because the have bigger issues to deal with than sports and activities. Just don't compare public and private it's not the same.Buffalo you need to add "RELIGION" to your reasons for families sending their kids to parochial schools. It is not the only reason, but believe me it is the #1 reason why families send their kids to these schools instead of the public school down the road.
And poor people have religion, too, and parochial schools have students in them that are from poor families.
9-11 is what enrollment numbers are based onThanks 1234...if your correct then isn't the disability argument pretty pointless as well?
Probably the biggest valid argument that I agree with is looking at the boys/girls breakdown for classification like South Dakota does. This logically makes a lot of sense.
How is the three year enrollment figured? Isn't it frosh-junior or am I wrong? I hope I am. If so I don't understand why frosh or included instead of seniors, kids who are actually likely to be on varsity.
I think it's an absolute must!! It would finally bring some fairness to the public schools that don't get to recruit all the best athletes!! Please don't come back with, we don't recruit.............!!
Do me a favor, get on the NDE website and look at enrollment numbers....compare private to public as far as free and reduced lunch and migrant and ESL population. When it comes to a competitive edge, you can't tell me that this puts a C2 public and private school on the same competitive level. If you disagree with me, just keep drinking the kool-aide. What is amazing is the NSAA has to commission a study to look into it, waste of money in my eyes, it's pretty obvious in the lower classes there is a difference. You can also keep your better students/program/coaching as to why private schools succeed line to yourself, I'm not buying it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the STC state basketball teams from a couple years back have 9 players on it from 9 different zipcodes?
Special Education students and a student having an IEP are different things. I have a sister who was in all special education classes because of disabilities. Obviously people in these situations are not going to be able to participate in athletics (to the fullest extent). I knew of several students who had IEPs and in my current profession, I see numerous students with IEPs who do not fall into the sped classification.
Thanks for correcting me...just what I had heard. I was wrong, willing to admit that.You are wrong. I am correcting you.
^^^^^^^. I think their reputation recruits for itself. If you lived in Columbus and liked volleyball (or football), why would you want to go to Columbus High? Same can be asked about a kid living in Kearney or Fremont or Norfolk. The private schools win and that keeps bringing in kids. It isn't like those coaches sit in living rooms of possible recruits.
sounds like kind of a "God Complex" to say that nebraska parochial school coaches stand in a light nearer to their maker than another state...And I'll say please don't try to make our Nebraska private school coaches sound bad based on what some coach from Arizona did.
You've got to be freaking kidding me.
right on...Parochial school and recruiting debate again. Nebraska needs to look into what Indiana does with teams that dominate their sport. A team that wins their district or qualifies state for X amount of years in a row will be bumped up one classification. This would help both public and private schools. How many district titles or state appearance will a team need to win to be moved up? I am thinking 3 or 4 in a row. How long do they stay moved up one classification? I don't have answer for that question.
This scenario would not single out parochial schools and treat all schools the same.
Thoughts?