Cedar Catholic vs Centura Semifinal Controversy

[ACICOD]

As many people may already know, there has been debate about whether Makenna Noecker from Cedar Catholic should have fouled out early in the 4th quarter of Friday’s game against Centura.

I did my own research by watching the On Demand replay on NFHS Network, and here are the results.

Using the official book on the NSAA site, it says that Noecker had the last foul of the third quarter called on her. That foul was an illegal screen against #20 Katelyn Arens. #2 Makenna Noecker buried a three pointer that was wiped off the board.

So, the problem comes down to one of two people:
1. The official scorekeeper incorrectly marked 2 instead of 20.

2. The official indicated the wrong number at the table, signaling 2 instead of 20.

In either case, a huge mistake was made, and the fact that everyone knew it but the scorekeeper and the official tells you all you need to know about the way the game was handled.

It’s also interesting to watch the 45-60 second conversation and debate that ensued. The Cedar Catholic book and the standby official can both be seen indicating 4 fouls. The Centura book comes and has five fouls to verify what the official book has. Two were correct and two were incorrect.

 

[SPbObRT]

Tie goes to the runner then?

 

[northeastNebraska]

End of the third quarter score was Centura 40 Cedar 36, for those who are interested in that aspect of the game. Final was 65-45.

 

[peyton00]

Sounds like something they need to get Cattau involved in, he's good at calling other coaches/AD’s to tell them all the bad things their teams are doing, while totally overlooking his own schools shortfalls

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

As many people may already know, there has been debate about whether Makenna Noecker from Cedar Catholic should have fouled out early in the 4th quarter of Friday’s game against Centura.

I did my own research by watching the On Demand replay on NFHS Network, and here are the results.

Using the official book on the NSAA site, it says that Noecker had the last foul of the third quarter called on her. That foul was an illegal screen against #20 Katelyn Arens. #2 Makenna Noecker buried a three pointer that was wiped off the board.

So, the problem comes down to one of two people:
1. The official scorekeeper incorrectly marked 2 instead of 20.

2. The official indicated the wrong number at the table, signaling 2 instead of 20.

In either case, a huge mistake was made, and the fact that everyone knew it but the scorekeeper and the official tells you all you need to know about the way the game was handled.

It’s also interesting to watch the 45-60 second conversation and debate that ensued. The Cedar Catholic book and the standby official can both be seen indicating 4 fouls. The Centura book comes and has five fouls to verify what the official book has. Two were correct and two were incorrect.

The question I have is this: What was flashed on the scoreboard? It's unfortunate that this happened, although looking at the margin almost certainly did not dictate the outcome, but IF the actual (and incorrect) foul was shown, a LOT of this is on the HCC coaching staff for not getting it corrected at THAT moment, while it's fresh in everybody's memory. As a HC you have to constantly be aware of all of that stuff, or designate someone to be something other than a cheerleader. It never ceases to amaze me how something doesn't get noticed until it is uncorrectable. It's too bad for the girl affected, but it seems like nobody was looking out for HER.

 

[thedailystoic]

Sounds like something they need to get Cattau involved in, he's good at calling other coaches/AD’s to tell them all the bad things their teams are doing, while totally overlooking his own schools shortfalls

what a dumb response!

 

[bruiser84]

The question I have is this: What was flashed on the scoreboard? It's unfortunate that this happened, although looking at the margin almost certainly did not dictate the outcome, but IF the actual (and incorrect) foul was shown, a LOT of this is on the HCC coaching staff for not getting it corrected at THAT moment, while it's fresh in everybody's memory. As a HC you have to constantly be aware of all of that stuff, or designate someone to be something other than a cheerleader. It never ceases to amaze me how something doesn't get noticed until it is uncorrectable. It's too bad for the girl affected, but it seems like nobody was looking out for HER.

I was not going to comment on this situation, but come on. We are going to "blame" the coaching staff for being cheerleaders instead of accepting the fact that an official screwed up a call? As a coach, I have my scorekeeper and the scoreboard to look at. Those two are in agreement, but you still want me to go check the "Official" book after every call just to "look out for my player".
How about the officials who are being paid to do a job, make sure it is done right? And when the scoreboard went from 3 to 5 fouls, the coach and his scorekeeper immediately went over and tried to plead their case. Mistakes happen. Even officials make them. It is a shame it happened on a big stage instead of a regular season game.
Would it have made a difference in the outcome? Probably not, but I guess we will never know. I do know that players play differently with 3 fouls and 4 fouls. And coaches coach differently when their top scorer has four fouls.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

I was not going to comment on this situation, but come on. We are going to "blame" the coaching staff for being cheerleaders instead of accepting the fact that an official screwed up a call? As a coach, I have my scorekeeper and the scoreboard to look at. Those two are in agreement, but you still want me to go check the "Official" book after every call just to "look out for my player".
How about the officials who are being paid to do a job, make sure it is done right? And when the scoreboard went from 3 to 5 fouls, the coach and his scorekeeper immediately went over and tried to plead their case. Mistakes happen. Even officials make them. It is a shame it happened on a big stage instead of a regular season game.
Would it have made a difference in the outcome? Probably not, but I guess we will never know. I do know that players play differently with 3 fouls and 4 fouls. And coaches coach differently when their top scorer has four fouls.

I am absolutely blaming the coaching staff. THEY are the ones with the most vested interest in the affair after all. If a coach doesn't know EXACTLY how many fouls each of his key players has, that coach isn't doing their job. Period. They also have the best chance to catch the mistake right when it happens. Whether the ref said "2-0" or "0-2" if THAT gets miscommunicated or mistranslated...unless the difference that shows up on the scoreboard doesn't work in your favor, it's YOUR obligation to get it corrected. Right then, right there. Same with a team foul issue, clock issue, whatever. Again mistakes happen. Not being aware of them is 100% on the coaching staff. Refs generally want to get it right. Same with clock people and official scorers. But it only really affects one team when they don't. So if the coaching staff isn't capable of following all that, they need different procedures. Knowing how modern scoreboards work, there is zero chance that fouls went from 3 to 5. It would have to be a glitch in the scoreboard itself. "Somebody" missed her 4th going up, instead of the girl that the foul should actually have been dinged with that foul. I'll guarantee you someone in the crowd noticed. I would have. Had the coach said "Whoa, wait, are you SURE the foul was on..." at the time, it likely would have gotten corrected. Unless of course the ref actually gave the foul to the wrong girl, which also happens.

 

[thedailystoic]

I am absolutely blaming the coaching staff. THEY are the ones with the most vested interest in the affair after all. If a coach doesn't know EXACTLY how many fouls each of his key players has, that coach isn't doing their job. Period. They also have the best chance to catch the mistake right when it happens. Whether the ref said "2-0" or "0-2" if THAT gets miscommunicated or mistranslated...unless the difference that shows up on the scoreboard doesn't work in your favor, it's YOUR obligation to get it corrected. Right then, right there. Same with a team foul issue, clock issue, whatever. Again mistakes happen. Not being aware of them is 100% on the coaching staff. Refs generally want to get it right. Same with clock people and official scorers. But it only really affects one team when they don't. So if the coaching staff isn't capable of following all that, they need different procedures.

If you watch the coach in the video, he is telling the officials that #2 wasn't on the same side of the floor. This comes down to officiating. Plain and simple. Watch the video

 

[thedailystoic]

If you watch the coach in the video, he is telling the officials that #2 wasn't on the same side of the floor. This comes down to officiating. Plain and simple. Watch the video

If an official cannot take the time to make sure they have the right call, then he needs to have a conference with the other officials. They should be aware as well. This is exactly the same mess that happened at Summerland this year. All 3 officials didn't pay attention and didn't communicate. That is officiating 101. Cedar's coach tried to get the foul corrected and the official did not want to be wrong so he wouldn't listen. Told him to get back in the coach's box and continued on with the game.

 

[bruiser84]

I am absolutely blaming the coaching staff. THEY are the ones with the most vested interest in the affair after all. If a coach doesn't know EXACTLY how many fouls each of his key players has, that coach isn't doing their job. Period. They also have the best chance to catch the mistake right when it happens. Whether the ref said "2-0" or "0-2" if THAT gets miscommunicated or mistranslated...unless the difference that shows up on the scoreboard doesn't work in your favor, it's YOUR obligation to get it corrected. Right then, right there. Same with a team foul issue, clock issue, whatever. Again mistakes happen. Not being aware of them is 100% on the coaching staff. Refs generally want to get it right. Same with clock people and official scorers. But it only really affects one team when they don't. So if the coaching staff isn't capable of following all that, they need different procedures.

Bad calls are a part of the game. Human error, I get that. Officials, don't want to make a mistake. I get that too. But when they do, how often do you see them admit it? Should we take more than 5minutes of game time to talk it through and get the call right? Or are we on a strict time schedule and need to keep these games moving? After the game is over, if an error is found, apologize and move on. We are not going to change the official outcome of any game. Just come clean and say " yeah we screwed that up."

If you are talking in general about coaching staffs, I agree it is their responsibility to manage the game. All aspects of the game. But I disagree that after every foul I need to go up to the official score keeper and ask " Did you have that on 2-0 and not 0-2 because my team scorekeeper had it on 2-0, and the scoreboard gave the foul to 2-0, so she only has three fouls. But in the upcoming fourth quarter if 2-0 gets another foul, I just want to make sure that she doesn't jump from 3 to 5, just in case you gave it to the wrong girl."

Can a coach ask the official score keeper at any time for these statistics? Yes. Did the coach in this case know his player had 3 fouls ? Yes it would appear so, Did the coach know, the official score keeper made a mistake and gave her four fouls? I doubt it or he would have asked to correct it. And if you are saying someone on each team's coaching staff needs to question the official score keeper every time he makes an entry in the book, I respectfully disagree.

 

[ACICOD]

More info..............

Foul was reported to the table as "20." It wasn't on the officials on the floor for this mistake.

Official book screwed it up.

Where the officials got it wrong was not knowing how many fouls the best player on the floor had. These guys were in over their head and were in survival mode, not managing the game at all.

 

[thedailystoic]

More info..............

Foul was reported to the table as "20." It wasn't on the officials on the floor for this mistake.

Official book screwed it up.

Where the officials got it wrong was not knowing how many fouls the best player on the floor had. These guys were in over their head and were in survival mode, not managing the game at all.

But if they reported it as 20, so the official book, which would have been Centura made the mistake. I thought that is why you have a bench official as well?

 

[bruiser84]

Sounds like something they need to get Cattau involved in, he's good at calling other coaches/AD’s to tell them all the bad things their teams are doing, while totally overlooking his own school

More info..............

Foul was reported to the table as "20." It wasn't on the officials on the floor for this mistake.

Official book screwed it up.

Where the officials got it wrong was not knowing how many fouls the best player on the floor had. These guys were in over their head and were in survival mode, not managing the game at all.

In defense of the refs on the floor, there were a lot of fouls both ways. The pace of the game and style of play by both teams led any fan to see this game was going to be greatly affected by fouls. While I hate to see games where the refs seem to make it about themselves, I also don't know about a game where a ref says "Well she is the leading scorer or rebounder, I better not call a foul on her." We have all watched games where the stars seem to get all the calls, (Jordan, Kobe, or Tom Brady for that matter). Call them like you see them, regardless of the number on the jersey, convey the message to the scorebook accurately, and let them do their job.

 

[bruiser84]

I don't even know where to go on the Cattau comment

 

[EndzoneView]

This happened when my team played cedar catholic this year, our coach asked about it, 30 second pow wow between the refs and they got it corrected. Much different environment than a semifinal game with 57 fouls called though.

All I know is thank goodness this happened against a private school and in favor of a public school lol. Outrage would be massive if it was the other way around I think.

 

[Alum-Ni]

But if they reported it as 20, so the official book, which would have been Centura made the mistake. I thought that is why you have a bench official as well?

I don't believe the "home" team is the official book at the state tournament. The NSAA has a bench official and their own designated "official" bookkeeer, do they not? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[ClkTwr2011]

I am absolutely blaming the coaching staff. THEY are the ones with the most vested interest in the affair after all. If a coach doesn't know EXACTLY how many fouls each of his key players has, that coach isn't doing their job. Period. They also have the best chance to catch the mistake right when it happens. Whether the ref said "2-0" or "0-2" if THAT gets miscommunicated or mistranslated...unless the difference that shows up on the scoreboard doesn't work in your favor, it's YOUR obligation to get it corrected. Right then, right there. Same with a team foul issue, clock issue, whatever. Again mistakes happen. Not being aware of them is 100% on the coaching staff. Refs generally want to get it right. Same with clock people and official scorers. But it only really affects one team when they don't. So if the coaching staff isn't capable of following all that, they need different procedures. Knowing how modern scoreboards work, there is zero chance that fouls went from 3 to 5. It would have to be a glitch in the scoreboard itself. "Somebody" missed her 4th going up, instead of the girl that the foul should actually have been dinged with that foul. I'll guarantee you someone in the crowd noticed. I would have. Had the coach said "Whoa, wait, are you SURE the foul was on..." at the time, it likely would have gotten corrected. Unless of course the ref actually gave the foul to the wrong girl, which also happens.

I agree with this. I gather this opinion to lack popularity, but I do agree. Somebody has to pay attention to the details.

Ask yourself this, does anyone believe that Fred Hoiberg would have noticed this? You better believe he would. He would walk out on the court and confirm 100% with everyone involved what was called and against whom. We have all seen him do it.

 

[NE Neb BB]

Not the coaches fault. Official Book, Refs, and Board Operator must be on the same page at the state tournament. Too important to mess up. NSAA is responsible for getting qualified people in those positions at state tournament. Totally understand that mistakes can be made but please don’t blame the coaches for believing that state tournament should be the best of the best in those spots. Sounds like coaches actually caught it and tried to get it corrected but to no avail. NSAA should possibly apologize if that senior had her career end incorrectly.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

I don't believe the "home" team is the official book at the state tournament. The NSAA has a bench official and their own designated "official" bookkeeer, do they not? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

They do.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

Bad calls are a part of the game. Human error, I get that. Officials, don't want to make a mistake. I get that too. But when they do, how often do you see them admit it? Should we take more than 5minutes of game time to talk it through and get the call right? Or are we on a strict time schedule and need to keep these games moving? After the game is over, if an error is found, apologize and move on. We are not going to change the official outcome of any game. Just come clean and say " yeah we screwed that up."

If you are talking in general about coaching staffs, I agree it is their responsibility to manage the game. All aspects of the game. But I disagree that after every foul I need to go up to the official score keeper and ask " Did you have that on 2-0 and not 0-2 because my team scorekeeper had it on 2-0, and the scoreboard gave the foul to 2-0, so she only has three fouls. But in the upcoming fourth quarter if 2-0 gets another foul, I just want to make sure that she doesn't jump from 3 to 5, just in case you gave it to the wrong girl."

Can a coach ask the official score keeper at any time for these statistics? Yes. Did the coach in this case know his player had 3 fouls ? Yes it would appear so, Did the coach know, the official score keeper made a mistake and gave her four fouls? I doubt it or he would have asked to correct it. And if you are saying someone on each team's coaching staff needs to question the official score keeper every time he makes an entry in the book, I respectfully disagree.

Nobody is saying "every" time! But in this case, the coach sees the screen, the ref comes over, administers it correctly and then "2---4" shows up on the board, it's absolutely negligent NOT to get it corrected. I guarantee people in both crowds noticed. This wasn't a routine deal or a thing where the coach thinks the wrong kid got called. The bookkeeper made a mistake, no doubt about it. And almost certainly an honest one considering the situation (easy numbers to invert, both girls in same area, etc.), but for no one on her bench to realize she was playing with "4"...I guess they need more scoreboards and such...

 

[MargotDeeper]

Sounds like something they need to get Cattau involved in, he's good at calling other coaches/AD’s to tell them all the bad things their teams are doing, while totally overlooking his own schools shortfalls

Crymore...

 

[thedailystoic]

I don't even know where to go on the Cattau comment

Because it was a dumb statement. Stay away from it. It is some butt hurt AD

 

[thedailystoic]

This happened when my team played cedar catholic this year, our coach asked about it, 30 second pow wow between the refs and they got it corrected. Much different environment than a semifinal game with 57 fouls called though.

All I know is thank goodness this happened against a private school and in favor of a public school lol. Outrage would be massive if it was the other way around I think.

Very ignorant statement, but I expect that from a high schooler

 

[bruiser84]

Nobody is saying "every" time! But in this case, the coach sees the screen, the ref comes over, administers it correctly and then "2---4" shows up on the board, it's absolutely negligent NOT to get it corrected. I guarantee people in both crowds noticed. This wasn't a routine deal or a thing where the coach thinks the wrong kid got called. The bookkeeper made a mistake, no doubt about it. And almost certainly an honest one considering the situation (easy numbers to invert, both girls in same area, etc.), but for no one on her bench to realize she was playing with "4"...I guess they need more scoreboards and such...

HighPlains, either you or I are not understanding what happened. I agree that if the scoreboard showed a foul incorrectly given to the wrong person, the bench should catch that immediately. But that is not what happened in ACICOD's description. I have not watched any replays. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

HighPlains, either you or I are not understanding what happened. I agree that if the scoreboard showed a foul incorrectly given to the wrong person, the bench should catch that immediately. But that is not what happened in ACICOD's description. I have not watched any replays. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

As I understand it (I was not in attendance), official called a foul on Player A. The official book recorded the foul to Player A. The Scoreboard recorded the foul to Player B.

Someone please correct this if I am inaccurate.

 

[ACICOD]

This is something that I cannot corraborate 100%, but I've had more than a dozen people at the game tell me that the board read 3 fouls on #2, and when she got called for the charge, it went to 5.

Knowing what I know about the scoreboards at Devaney, they are not set up for basketball. This is not your garden-variety Daktronics system that updates fouls as you enter. This is all manual work.

I'm guessing the scoreboard operator had it right the whole time.

 

[ACICOD]

Guys --

The official signaled the foul on 20, which was correct. The official book recorded the wrong number (2). That's why she had a "5th" foul that wasn't there. She only had 4, and #20 was credited with one less foul than she should have had.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

As I understand it (I was not in attendance), official called a foul on Player A. The official book recorded the foul to Player .A. The Scoreboard recorded the foul to Player B.

Someone please correct this if I am inaccurate.

@bruiser84 . ClkTwr gave my understanding of the event. Actually calling it on the wrong girl would have been really unfortunate, and an indictment on officiating. Giving the foul to the wrong # inadvertently, is a mistake and, to me at least, completely on the Head Coach not doing his job. Sort of like in football if the officials begin marking off a penalty from the incorrect spot. Or the down marker, scoreboard, and officials not all in harmony on which down it is. In that case, nobody does nothing until we get on the same page!
The coach has a moral obligation to his athletes, and a professional obligation to the Game to ensure that the game is administered correctly. Some of the homers on here have tried to say the coach DID protest. Nonsense. If he ( or she, i have no clue) did, then they REALIZED they had gotten honked and would have coached accordingly, just another bad call, happens all the time. Right? This was a shock it seems to the entire HCC bench. THAT is on the Coach, no two ways about it.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

This is something that I cannot corraborate 100%, but I've had more than a dozen people at the game tell me that the board read 3 fouls on #2, and when she got called for the charge, it went to 5.

Knowing what I know about the scoreboards at Devaney, they are not set up for basketball. This is not your garden-variety Daktronics system that updates fouls as you enter. This is all manual work.

I'm guessing the scoreboard operator had it right the whole time.

I'm pretty sure they use a basketball ready control unit. Reasonably sure it isn't "manual". The scoreboard, doesn't, or shouldn't at any rate, put anything on the board until the scorer states it.

 

[ACICOD]

People are NOT LISTENING to what happened. I have visually seen the replays from both sides of the floor (one NCN broadcast & one team account video).

Foul at the end of the 3rd was called on #20 (Arens) for an illegal screen. At the table, it was reported #20.

The official scorer wrote down #2. There was no reason to believe the foul was called on #2. None.

When #2 then fouled in the fourth quarter, everyone in the building (except the officials and the official scorer) knew she had four fouls, but it was for not.

 

[Alum-Ni]

People are NOT LISTENING to what happened. I have visually seen the replays from both sides of the floor (one NCN broadcast & one team account video).

Foul at the end of the 3rd was called on #20 (Arens) for an illegal screen. At the table, it was reported #20.

The official scorer wrote down #2. There was no reason to believe the foul was called on #2. None.

When #2 then fouled in the fourth quarter, everyone in the building (except the officials and the official scorer) knew she had four fouls, but it was for not.

To be the fair, even the officials wouldn't know. They don't keep track of fouls in their heads. The scorebooks (official, home and away) are the only ones who would know the actual count (and hopefully the coaching staffs).

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

People are NOT LISTENING to what happened. I have visually seen the replays from both sides of the floor (one NCN broadcast & one team account video).

Foul at the end of the 3rd was called on #20 (Arens) for an illegal screen. At the table, it was reported #20.

The official scorer wrote down #2. There was no reason to believe the foul was called on #2. None.

When #2 then fouled in the fourth quarter, everyone in the building (except the officials and the official scorer) knew she had four fouls, but it was for not.

What did the scoreboard show? That to me is the only thing that would get the HCC coach off the hook. I did talk to someone from Boelus this morning. HE said that the foul went on #2, but he thought it was just an awful call, not a miscommunication. And...the guys around him weren't complaining. lol. I didn't ask specifically about the display, but he said Centura fans weren't surprised when she "fouled out", so I can only surmise that it showed, incorrectly "2---4". I can't, for the life of me, imagine the scoreboard operator putting down the "wrong" number, without correhecting the scorer. Those two, at every game I've ever attended, talk the entire time. So, IF the scoreboard operator went all rogue, that would remove the burden from the HCC coach and put it on him for not double-checking the scorer. I've seen operators get it wrong too, generally the official scorer corrects THEM. The system is designed to have some fail-safes built into it.

 

[Hardwoodbeaver]

I really can’t believe people are still talking about this. I see errors like this at multiple times a year. Sh**! Happens

 

[bruiser84]

Guys --

The official signaled the foul on 20, which was correct. The official book recorded the wrong number (2). That's why she had a "5th" foul that wasn't there. She only had 4, and #20 was credited with one less foul than she should have had.

So that is what I understood. And after the play the coach looked at the score board and saw that #20 was assesed the foul. Everything looked correct. In the fourth quarter after the next foul #2 went from 3 to 5 fouls, presumably because the official score keeper told the clock operator you have that wrong. So did they take a foul off the board for 20 (even though that would also have been a mistake?)

I get what you're saying High Plains. If something goes up on the board incorrectly, someone on the bench should be catching that. But the coach had no idea anyhting was other than the way he understood the call. The official score book and score board were not in unison. Some official on the sideline should have caught this, and straightened it out before the next foul.

Someone said something in an earlier comment about the CC coach getting sent back to coach's box. Was this in the third quarter after the "illegal screen" call or in the fourth after the mystical 5th foul? If it was after the 3 rd quarter foul, and the coach didn't get clarification on the call, then I would also agree with High Plains that it was his responsibility to found out which one of his players had the foul.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe both benches already had gotten a sideline warning by this time. That too might make a coach more reluctant to "push an issue" even if h thinks he is right, and risk a technical.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

This topic is way longer than it was ever worth
Two conclusions from this topic
1. who cares it had zero impact on the game for the love of everything look at the final score
2. and we wonder why we have an official shortage

 

[northeastNebraska]

It sucks it happened, but at the end of the day Centura won the game by 20. I understand how good of a player she is, but Centura aren't scrubs either. They also won the championship the next day.

Mistakes happen.

 

[Llama57]

I disagree. In another thread, it says she fouled out with 7:00 left in the game. It was a 4 pt game going into the 4th. Noecker is a D1 all state player & definitely could have made a difference in the game.
I didn't watch the game, but if all the above info is correct, saying that it didn't matter is foolish.

 

[Alum-Ni]

I disagree. In another thread, it says she fouled out with 7:00 left in the game. It was a 4 pt game going into the 4th. Noecker is a D1 all state player & definitely could have made a difference in the game.
I didn't watch the game, but if all the above info is correct, saying that it didn't matter is foolish.

I tend to agree.....it did have a significant impact on the game, IMO.

 

[bruiser84]

Exactly why I was hesitant to comment at all. Would have made a difference? Wouldn't have made a difference? Doesn't matter, we are not going to change it. I was merely taking exception with blaming the coaching staff for this aspect of the game. If we want blame the staff for something, we can blame them for the fact that CC was held nearly scoreless in the 3 rd quarter, and it was only their defense that kept them in it, up to the point of the foul. Game of streaks. I need to weather the storm when my opponent is on a hot streak. And then my opponent needs to dig it's heals in when I come storming back.