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Class D playoff system is the laughing stock

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highschoolfootballnut

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Sep 1, 2012
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The most embarrassing thing in sports in the state and maybe the country is Class D playoffs
The 8-man point system is a joke and to prove it a 5-3 team didnt get in but a 2-6 team did WTH and 3 or 4, 3-5 teams did, 40 points for a loss is just plain dumb, I have no dog in this fight but this is embarrassing To make this even more of a joke Axtell is 5-3 and Paxton gets in over them at 2-6 with one of the wins being a forfeit, Paxton won 1 game and gets in over a 5-3 team YOU would think Class D teams would get tired of their playoffs being such a joke and fix the system
 
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Aside from more teams making it to playoffs, I fail to see how qualifying for playoffs is much different than the other classes. Axtell was not a District Champion or runner up just like Paxton, so both were at the mercy of the "Power Points" system, which is just as flawed in class A, B, C1 and C2 as it is in D1, D2, and D6.

Is there a flaw that Axtell didn't make it? Possibly. Is the flaw a Class D exclusive? No. Even if you cut the field in half, there would still be bickering about some teams being "left out" because of the way that the Power Points system is set up. What Paxton did was nothing short of a mathematical anomaly in the grand scheme of things
 
HappyTrail3200 said:
Aside from more teams making it to playoffs, I fail to see how qualifying for playoffs is much different than the other classes. Axtell was not a District Champion or runner up just like Paxton, so both were at the mercy of the "Power Points" system, which is just as flawed in class A, B, C1 and C2 as it is in D1, D2, and D6.

Is there a flaw that Axtell didn't make it? Possibly. Is the flaw a Class D exclusive? No. Even if you cut the field in half, there would still be bickering about some teams being "left out" because of the way that the Power Points system is set up. What Paxton did was nothing short of a mathematical anomaly in the grand scheme of things
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The point systems are not the same, big difference in the two. In 11-man you have to win 77% of your games to be a Div 1 and 55% to be Div 2. In 8-man you only have to win 66% of your games to be a Div 1 and a sad 33% of your games to be a Div 2
 
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I'd not argue this point. The other thing that happens is you can have a 40-point win and a 38-point loss. That makes it pretty easy for a 2-6 team and a 5-3 team to be "similar." The 8-man coaches can fix or change if the want, but they don't. This doesn't happen in 11-man. The worse win is 41 and the best loss is 36. You'd never see it happen on the big side.

In fact, I think the 11-man playoffs are pretty good. In C, you had two district champs with four wins. They are 15 and 16 seeds. B is gonna be interesting since it's smaller. You'll likely have about 11 teams with winning records in the class. Other than that, the 11-man coaches have it right.
 
I think C1 and C2 playoffs are the best. A close behind. B, D1, and D2 are a joke with the % of teams that are in.

D playoffs are the absolute worst though. Only an 8 game regular season so the cream doesn't rise as much to the top like a 9 game regular season. 32 teams in with some having 2-6 records or a 1-7 Boyd County last year. They lose the Friday night schedule and play games on the oddest nights, and because of that have the oddest start times. Nothing like a 2:00 PM kickoff on a Wednesday afternoon!
 
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8 man could use the exact same point system as the 11 man teams, just adjust the win % to 25,50,75 since they play 8 games. That point system isn't great either. It uses a 36 pt loss to a Division 1 team when a win vs a Division 4 team is 41. I think you use the same system as basketball with those percentages and you get a lot better system. Also, loaded districts can be a problem. Things may end up like baseball or wrestling to fix that. There are districts that have no business and some that are loaded with good teams. The Paxton Axtell example should be on a powerpoint at the district meetings when this comes up.
 
I would also say that when you are playing a team that has dropped down and are ineligible for playoffs you should get bonus points for playing them, just like as if you were playing them in the class that they should be in. I have seen some teams that play 3 teams that are ineligible for playoffs and get normal points for playing them.
 
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atlanta_ace said:
I'd not argue this point. The other thing that happens is you can have a 40-point win and a 38-point loss. That makes it pretty easy for a 2-6 team and a 5-3 team to be "similar." The 8-man coaches can fix or change if the want, but they don't. This doesn't happen in 11-man. The worse win is 41 and the best loss is 36. You'd never see it happen on the big side.

In fact, I think the 11-man playoffs are pretty good. In C, you had two district champs with four wins. They are 15 and 16 seeds. B is gonna be interesting since it's smaller. You'll likely have about 11 teams with winning records in the class. Other than that, the 11-man coaches have it right.
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This same topic, or a very similar one, is being debated on another thread. I am beginning to wonder if one's position on this issue isn't being dictated by how our favorite teams have been "mistreated" in the past. I personally don't care if a 4-5 team gets in over a 6-3 team if they have played a more difficult schedule. ( 2-6 however does seem a bit over the top.) But if my team lost to 5 teams that are in the playoffs, but beat 4 teams that are out of the playoffs, it is my opinion they should be able to earn enough powerpoints to get in rather than a team that beat 6 non-playoff teams, but lost to 3 playoff teams. Neither team sets the schedules so they can't help who they play. Ultimately it probably doesn't matter, because both will probably lose in the first round. So I guess why change the system. About 1/4 the people will be upset anyway
 
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Paxton's schedule was way tougher than what Axtell played. Paxton's opponents records were a combined 39-25 and Axtell's was 23-41. Paxton played 6 playoff qualifying teams and Axtell played 3. Doesn't that reward the team that played a tougher schedule?
 
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I guess Axtell could have been rewarded by getting into the playoffs and get pounded 1st round by Mullen. If you ask the Paxton players, who just lost to Mullen last week, they might be happy to let Axtell take their place. It looks like to me that Axtell should have beat 4-4 Giltner. They never beat anyone with more than 2 wins. I know similar to Paxton, but Paxton might have been 5-3 playing a schedule similar to Axtell.
 
AllIseeisgreen said:
I guess Axtell could have been rewarded by getting into the playoffs and get pounded 1st round by Mullen. If you ask the Paxton players, who just lost to Mullen last week, they might be happy to let Axtell take their place. It looks like to me that Axtell should have beat 4-4 Giltner. They never beat anyone with more than 2 wins. I know similar to Paxton, but Paxton might have been 5-3 playing a schedule similar to Axtell.
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Paxton beat one team and the one team they beat was 1-7 with its only win being a forfeit
they won two games on by forfeit vs teams that were 1-15 and that one win was a forfeit
 
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Class D Playoff field is just too big. I'm sorry, but the State Champion isn't coming out of that bottom 16......and if it does it shouldn't. Add a game to the schedule, and cut the field to 16. I agree, it is an embarrassment.
 
coach hager said:
Paxton's schedule was way tougher than what Axtell played. Paxton's opponents records were a combined 39-25 and Axtell's was 23-41. Paxton played 6 playoff qualifying teams and Axtell played 3. Doesn't that reward the team that played a tougher schedule?
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Alright I am going to say it if no one else will. Neither team sounds very deserving. If we are having to go this deep just to fill up a 32 team bracket, than maybe the field is too big. But if you want to stay with 32 teams, it will not matter in the least. Question to all the experts. What is lowest ranked team to ever make the finals/ win the finals?
 
bruiser84 said:
Alright I am going to say it if no one else will. Neither team sounds very deserving. If we are having to go this deep just to fill up a 32 team bracket, than maybe the field is too big. But if you want to stay with 32 teams, it will not matter in the least. Question to all the experts. What is lowest ranked team to ever make the finals/ win the finals?
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I don't know about the finals, but didn't a 2- or 3-win team win a playoff game or two a few years back?
 
ClkTwr2011 said:
Class D Playoff field is just too big. I'm sorry, but the State Champion isn't coming out of that bottom 16......and if it does it shouldn't. Add a game to the schedule, and cut the field to 16. I agree, it is an embarrassment.
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Pretty sure the 2016 Champion Burwell came out of the bottom 16 AND this year BDS was beaten by a bottom 16. Schools in D1 & D2 play 8 man because we don't have many kids. An injury to 1 athlete can change the whole dynamic of a team.....they just don't have the depth to make adequate replacements. In Burwell's case in 2016.....had multiple injuries to start the year and were healthy at the end. I understand there are some blowouts......but my feeling is more is better. NO system is perfect and if you look back over the years, we have tried about everything. 8 man brackets, 16 man brackets & 32 team brackets........just leave it alone.
 
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scrapper14 said:
Pretty sure the 2016 Champion Burwell came out of the bottom 16 AND this year BDS was beaten by a bottom 16. Schools in D1 & D2 play 8 man because we don't have many kids. An injury to 1 athlete can change the whole dynamic of a team.....they just don't have the depth to make adequate replacements. In Burwell's case in 2016.....had multiple injuries to start the year and were healthy at the end. I understand there are some blowouts......but my feeling is more is better. NO system is perfect and if you look back over the years, we have tried about everything. 8 man brackets, 16 man brackets & 32 team brackets........just leave it alone.
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Then why even have a 8 game regular season? Why not have a 7 game regular season and let everyone in? Heck why even keep score and records for the regular season? Just being sarcastic here.

I realize Burwell won in 2016 and without a 32 game setup they would not have. Keep in mind though with a 16 team playoff and 9 game regular season they very well would have snuck in as a bottom seed with one more victory in week 9. I'm a firm believer that your regular season games each week need to mean something. We cant attempt to equalize injuries in sports, especially football. For example, look at Creighton last year. Was Burwell the best team throughout the course of the entire year in 2016? Probably not. Were they playing great at the end and probably had good matchups in the playoffs? Yes, without a doubt. Good for them, they took their opportunity and seized it. That doesn't necessarily mean a 32 team playoff is the best scenario.
 
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nenebskers said:
Then why even have a 8 game regular season? Why not have a 7 game regular season and let everyone in? Heck why even keep score and records for the regular season? Just being sarcastic here.

I realize Burwell won in 2016 and without a 32 game setup they would not have. Keep in mind though with a 16 team playoff and 9 game regular season they very well would have snuck in as a bottom seed with one more victory in week 9. I'm a firm believer that your regular season games each week need to mean something. We cant attempt to equalize injuries on sports, especially football. For example, look at Creighton last year. Was Burwell the best team throughout the course of the entire year in 2016? Probably not. Were they playing great at the end and probably had good matchups in the playoffs? Probably so. That doesn't necessarily mean a 32 team playoff is the best scenario.
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Totally agree. Play 9 regular season games like everyone else.
 
scrapper14 said:
Pretty sure the 2016 Champion Burwell came out of the bottom 16 AND this year BDS was beaten by a bottom 16. Schools in D1 & D2 play 8 man because we don't have many kids. An injury to 1 athlete can change the whole dynamic of a team.....they just don't have the depth to make adequate replacements. In Burwell's case in 2016.....had multiple injuries to start the year and were healthy at the end. I understand there are some blowouts......but my feeling is more is better. NO system is perfect and if you look back over the years, we have tried about everything. 8 man brackets, 16 man brackets & 32 team brackets........just leave it alone.
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Completely agree....
 
This gets argued every year. Is the system flawed? Probably! Next week everyone forgets the first round scores and the best 16 teams are usually playing. Until the somebody comes up with a better solution that the NSAA adopts why can't we just sit back and be happy for the teams that do make it.
 
AllIseeisgreen said:
I guess Axtell could have been rewarded by getting into the playoffs and get pounded 1st round by Mullen. If you ask the Paxton players, who just lost to Mullen last week, they might be happy to let Axtell take their place. It looks like to me that Axtell should have beat 4-4 Giltner. They never beat anyone with more than 2 wins. I know similar to Paxton, but Paxton might have been 5-3 playing a schedule similar to Axtell.
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Your end statement I agree with. That's what the point system tries to do (all be it, it is not perfect but what point system is). If Paxton played Axtell's schedule they would have been 5-3 or better. For what it's worth, I believe if the two teams played this year, Paxton would win against Axtell. One never know's though.
 
highschoolfootballnut said:
Paxton beat one team
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scrapper14 said:
Pretty sure the 2016 Champion Burwell came out of the bottom 16 AND this year BDS was beaten by a bottom 16. Schools in D1 & D2 play 8 man because we don't have many kids. An injury to 1 athlete can change the whole dynamic of a team.....they just don't have the depth to make adequate replacements. In Burwell's case in 2016.....had multiple injuries to start the year and were healthy at the end. I understand there are some blowouts......but my feeling is more is better. NO system is perfect and if you look back over the years, we have tried about everything. 8 man brackets, 16 man brackets & 32 team brackets........just leave it alone.
Click to expand...
sports10 said:
Your end statement I agree with. That's what the point system tries to do (all be it, it is not perfect but what point system is). If Paxton played Axtell's schedule they would have been 5-3 or better. For what it's worth, I believe if the two teams played this year, Paxton would win against Axtell. One never know's though.
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Paxton won one game and got in over a 5-3 team The system is more than flawed its a joke
 
highschoolfootballnut said:
Paxton won one game and got in over a 5-3 team The system is more than flawed its a joke
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You may think it is a joke but it is the system that we have and until a better one is proposed and agreed upon it is what it is. It is not Paxton's fault they received a forfeit, so stop saying they won one game. It is also not Paxton's fault they had to play the schedule they played. They lost to a team (by 6 points) that just won a D1 first round playoff game.
 
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coach hager said:
This gets argued every year. Is the system flawed? Probably! Next week everyone forgets the first round scores and the best 16 teams are usually playing. Until the somebody comes up with a better solution that the NSAA adopts why can't we just sit back and be happy for the teams that do make it.
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Exactly!
 
sports10 said:
You may think it is a joke but it is the system that we have and until a better one is proposed and agreed upon it is what it is. It is not Paxton's fault they received a forfeit, so stop saying they won one game. It is also not Paxton's fault they had to play the schedule they played. They lost to a team (by 6 points) that just won a D1 first round playoff game.
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and its not Axtells fault they played the schedule they played and won 5 games and Paxton won one game
 
So what if the NSAA called the first round of the playoffs week 9 and kept the same system. What is the difference...Nothing. If you add a week 9 game. Do you think that the 0-8 or 1-7 teams still want to play the last regular season game? I don't think so. By making playoffs teams get to sell t-shirts make a little money for a fundraiser and at least have a hope by saying all records are out the window.
 
Also the point system needs to change for 8 man. Current System...

Win Points
7-1 50
6-2 50
5-3 45
4-4 45
3-5 45
2-6 40
1-7 40
0-8 40

Loss Points
8-0 38
7-1 38
6-2 38
5-3 33
4-4 33
3-5 33
2-6 28
1-7 28

This makes no sense because it is impossible to beat a 8-0 team and lose to a 0-8 team..... Use the 11man point system....

Win Points
7-1 50
6-2 50
5-3 47
4-4 47
3-5 44
2-6 44
1-7 41
0-8 41

Loss Points
8-0 36
7-1 36
6-2 33
5-3 33
4-4 30
3-5 30
2-6 27
1-7 27
 
1and0 said:
So what if the NSAA called the first round of the playoffs week 9 and kept the same system. What is the difference...Nothing. If you add a week 9 game. Do you think that the 0-8 or 1-7 teams still want to play the last regular season game? I don't think so. By making playoffs teams get to sell t-shirts make a little money for a fundraiser and at least have a hope by saying all records are out the window.
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I really think best system for a group of 32 would be play east and west first round and then reseed top 16 and play 1 vs 16 and 2 vs 15 and so on and get rid of east west. Still need to fix the points so a Div two team isnt a team that only wins 34% of its games thats not a DIV two team
 
highschoolfootballnut said:
and its not Axtells fault they played the schedule they played and won 5 games and Paxton won one game
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You just said they won one game again...
Honestly look at the two teams schedules. Axtell beat Loomis by 6, Paxton lost to Sutherland by 6. Throw the records out, who should be in the play-offs?
 
highschoolfootballnut said:
I really think best system for a group of 32 would be play east and west first round and then reseed top 16 and play 1 vs 16 and 2 vs 15 and so on and get rid of east west. Still need to fix the points so a Div two team isnt a team that only wins 34% of its games thats not a DIV two team
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We agree!
 
sports10 said:
You just said they won one game again...
Honestly look at the two teams schedules. Axtell beat Loomis by 6, Paxton lost to Sutherland by 6. Throw the records out, who should be in the play-offs?
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Paxton beat one team and the one team they beat was 1-7 with its only win being a forfeit
they won two games on by forfeit vs teams that were 1-15 and that one win was a forfeit
 
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