Let's discuss the Class D1 Playoffs in 2016

[northeastNebraska]

Only 10 of the 42 team class will not be eligible for the playoffs. So 32 out of 42 will make the playoffs. Could we see a few 1-7 teams make the playoffs? Ridiculous in my opinion.

This is embarrassing on all levels and something needs to be changed. Whether you stop the insane amount of teams opting down, change the 83 number or just have a 16 team playoff like everyone else does.

I'm all for a 16 team playoff in 8 man, under .500 teams don't deserve to make the playoffs. I don't care how tough their schedule may be.

Thoughts?

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Only 10 of the 42 team class will not be eligible for the playoffs. So 32 out of 42 will make the playoffs. Could we see a few 1-7 teams make the playoffs? Ridiculous in my opinion.

This is embarrassing on all levels and something needs to be changed. Whether you stop the insane amount of teams opting down, change the 83 number or just have a 16 team playoff like everyone else does.

I'm all for a 16 team playoff in 8 man, under .500 teams don't deserve to make the playoffs. I don't care how tough their schedule may be.

Thoughts?

Just think if nothing changes and next cycle they get 5 more not eligible, then you could have a 0-8 team make the playoffs, wouldn't that be something They way it is now 2-6 an you are in

 

[Football2002]

Why does this bother you so much? I've read many posts of yours in the past regarding this topic, and I just can't figure out WHY this bugs you. Who cares if there are 1-7 teams in the playoffs? Those players know they aren't some super-team just because they get to wear a playoff t-shirt. Trust me, in 20 years, they won't be bragging about getting to the playoffs with their 1-7 record. They know who they are. It's the 7-2 teams that don't get in that bothers me. (although with as small as C1 and C2 are getting, even with a 16 team bracket, I don't think that'll happen, again).

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Why does this bother you so much? I've read many posts of yours in the past regarding this topic, and I just can't figure out WHY this bugs you. Who cares if there are 1-7 teams in the playoffs? Those players know they aren't some super-team just because they get to wear a playoff t-shirt. Trust me, in 20 years, they won't be bragging about getting to the playoffs with their 1-7 record. They know who they are. It's the 7-2 teams that don't get in that bothers me. (although with as small as C1 and C2 are getting, even with a 16 team bracket, I don't think that'll happen, again).

really think the number needs raised to 93 and allow no opting down, other states dont allow opting down, because now the problem for those 11 schools becomes everyones problem

 

[Ponchn7138]

The problem is the OPTING down. 105 and Under should play 8 man. The numbers need adjusted to fit the decrease in participation. Also their should be a number set on 6 man as well.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Why does this bother you so much? I've read many posts of yours in the past regarding this topic, and I just can't figure out WHY this bugs you. Who cares if there are 1-7 teams in the playoffs? Those players know they aren't some super-team just because they get to wear a playoff t-shirt. Trust me, in 20 years, they won't be bragging about getting to the playoffs with their 1-7 record. They know who they are. It's the 7-2 teams that don't get in that bothers me. (although with as small as C1 and C2 are getting, even with a 16 team bracket, I don't think that'll happen, again).

It bugs me because playoff births should be earned, not handed out.

 

[Ponchn7138]

I think about 60% of teams should make the playoffs. - So it just depends on how many teams are in the classification. - Every other sport has a district tournament that allows everyone a chance. SO, 60% or as close to that as you can get with bracket set up - seems about right.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I think about 60% of teams should make the playoffs. - So it just depends on how many teams are in the classification. - Every other sport has a district tournament that allows everyone a chance. SO, 60% or as close to that as you can get with bracket set up - seems about right.

and football has a district tourney also So you want district play and 60% also in state Football is the easiest sport to get to state in and D-1 is just a joke to make state

 

[Ponchn7138]

16/28 57% in Class A ----- 16/31 52% in Class B ------ 16/42 38% in Class C1 --- 16/43 37% in Class C2 ---- 32/52 (10 or 11 ineligible) 76% for D1-----and 32/54 59% for D2

 

[Antone13]

I know i have posted this before but the NSAA should set for football that 50% of the teams get into playoffs. If there is an odd number take one more than 50%. Then issue first round byes to the higher seed teams to make a bracket. I also feel playoffs need to be played on Friday nite for travel purposes even if that means only 7 regular season games. I also think the NSAA needs to do away with the east west split. These are my opinions.

 

[Ponchn7138]

Antone13 would that be worth the change? So take Class A from 16 to 14 team bracket ? and Class B would stay same but give the bye week? Class C from a 16 team bracket to a 22 team bracket ? and D1 would need to go from 32 to a 22 team bracket ? D2 bracket would go from 32 to 28 ? How would you line all those brackets up to start the same week and end on championship weekend?

Still the biggest problem is teams that opt down and are not eligible. Set a number and require teams to play 8 or 11.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I know i have posted this before but the NSAA should set for football that 50% of the teams get into playoffs. If there is an odd number take one more than 50%. Then issue first round byes to the higher seed teams to make a bracket. I also feel playoffs need to be played on Friday nite for travel purposes even if that means only 7 regular season games. I also think the NSAA needs to do away with the east west split. These are my opinions.

I agree with getting rid of the east west split. But there is no reason for 50% of teams in each class to make the playoffs. 16 is the perfect number for all classes.

 

[hailvictors2]

I agree with getting rid of the east west split. But there is no reason for 50% of teams in each class to make the playoffs. 16 is the perfect number for all classes.

You realize that over 50% make it in class A and right at 50% make it in class B under the current system, right? Not sure why you believe that is ok in class A/B, but not in the smaller school classes.

 

[northeastNebraska]

You realize that over 50% make it in class A and right at 50% make it in class B under the current system, right? Not sure why you believe that is ok in class A/B, but not in the smaller school classes.

Because in classes A and B you don't have over 10 teams that are at or below .500. Three teams under .500 made it in a 16 team playoff in Class A last year.

I just don't think 32 teams in a class with 53 (Class D1) teams should make the playoffs and nearly half of them are under or at .500. (14 teams in last years Class D1 bracket were at or below .500.)

I just think it should be 16 teams for all classes throughout the state. Get the best teams in and let them fight for it. Instead of having 3-5 Wallace play 8-0 Chambers half way across the state in the first round and losing 60-6. I know blowouts happen in later rounds but they are more prominent in the first round of 8 man football.

 

[Ponchn7138]

NortheastNebraska IMO that would really hurt the game of football. Especially 8 man. You would see more and more kids NOT play. That is the last thing we want. Kids need hope. They need to have and feel like they are having success. There would be a lot of teams that might have an injury bug and lose a game or two early. They would give up because they would know there isn't much a chance to continue season. If they have a chance they will keep fighting and playing the game hard through out season. Practicing hard and trying to improve. More kids would get discouraged. More kids would not go out. With just 16 teams of 54. It would just be hard to turn struggling programs around and have year in and year out success. I agree 70% is crazy but 50% is a good number regardless of the record.

 

[northeastNebraska]

NortheastNebraska IMO that would really hurt the game of football. Especially 8 man. You would see more and more kids NOT play. That is the last thing we want. Kids need hope. They need to have and feel like they are having success. There would be a lot of teams that might have an injury bug and lose a game or two early. They would give up because they would know there isn't much a chance to continue season. If they have a chance they will keep fighting and playing the game hard through out season. Practicing hard and trying to improve. More kids would get discouraged. More kids would not go out. With just 16 teams of 54. It would just be hard to turn struggling programs around and have year in and year out success. I agree 70% is crazy but 50% is a good number regardless of the record.

Well than have it be 24 teams and the top 4 teams get a bye. I would be okay with that. Less amount of teams that are under .500, the best four teams get a week off, and that way the teams that may have lost a game due "to someone injured" can still be in it.

 

[hailvictors2]

Because in classes A and B you don't have over 10 teams that are at or below .500. Three teams under .500 made it in a 16 team playoff in Class A last year.

I just don't think 32 teams in a class with 53 (Class D1) teams should make the playoffs and nearly half of them are under or at .500. (14 teams in last years Class D1 bracket were at or below .500.)

I just think it should be 16 teams for all classes throughout the state. Get the best teams in and let them fight for it. Instead of having 3-5 Wallace play 8-0 Chambers half way across the state in the first round and losing 60-6. I know blowouts happen in later rounds but they are more prominent in the first round of 8 man football.

I'll agree to disagree. Records are completely irrelevant when it comes to judging the quality of a football team and who is deserving of post season play. Quality of schedule is the more accurate indicator. Any person with a knowledge of sports will agree with that. Look no further than the bowl season. 5-7 Nebraska, San Jose State, and Minnesota all win their bowl games over teams with winning records. Alabama had a loss, Clemson did not.....Alabama won. The records are meaningless. If records were all that mattered the NCAA Basketball committee would give all the at-large bids to the teams from junk conferences with 25 wins instead of the teams like Nebraska that go 18-13 in the Big 10.

Regarding blowouts, I think you need to do a little bit of homework regarding the playoff scores over the last decade. Here are some numbers from the 2015 season regarding scoring margin in each round:

Round of 32
D1- 36.43
D2- 36.43

Round of 16
D1- 28.875
D2- 30.125

To me, there is little to no difference between a 36 point game and a 28 point or 30 point game..

Some more numbers regarding scoring margin....
Round of 8
A- 27
C2- 29
D1- 24.25
D2- 32.25

You will notice that the round of 16 was actually closer than the round of 8 in D2. Pretty solid evidence that shrinking the numbers doesn't generate better games.

Semi-Finals
A- 16.5
C1- 34.5
C2- 28.5
D1- 26
D2- 32.5

You will again notice that the victory margin increased in D2 from round of 8 to round of 4. Again, more evidence that decreasing the teams doesn't generate better games. The same happened in D1.

Five of the 6 classes averaged a 3 score game or more in the semis. 4 of the 6 classes averaged a 4 score game or more in the semis. To say that blowouts are more prominent in the first round of 8 man football is flat out inaccurate.

Here is a fact.... It doesn't matter how many teams you take the playoffs, the best teams are going to blow everyone out (regardless of opposition's record). Aquinas' closest game in C-2 was a 29 point finals win over Oakland-Craig (that win was higher than the scoring average of Northeast Nebraska's proposed first round games in D-1 with 16 teams.....28.875). Aquinas' second closest game was 35 points against LHNE, who went 4-5 on the year. Great teams are miles ahead of good teams. Every year there are 1-4 great teams in each class and then a bunch of good and decent teams. Unless you only take the great teams to the playoffs, expect blowouts throughout the playoffs.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I'll agree to disagree. Records are completely irrelevant when it comes to judging the quality of a football team and who is deserving of post season play. Quality of schedule is the more accurate indicator. Any person with a knowledge of sports will agree with that. Look no further than the bowl season. 5-7 Nebraska, San Jose State, and Minnesota all win their bowl games over teams with winning records. Alabama had a loss, Clemson did not.....Alabama won. The records are meaningless. If records were all that mattered the NCAA Basketball committee would give all the at-large bids to the teams from junk conferences with 25 wins instead of the teams like Nebraska that go 18-13 in the Big 10.

Regarding blowouts, I think you need to do a little bit of homework regarding the playoff scores over the last decade. Here are some numbers from the 2015 season regarding scoring margin in each round:

Round of 32
D1- 36.43
D2- 36.43

Round of 16
D1- 28.875
D2- 30.125

To me, there is little to no difference between a 36 point game and a 28 point or 30 point game..

Some more numbers regarding scoring margin....
Round of 8
A- 27
C2- 29
D1- 24.25
D2- 32.25

You will notice that the round of 16 was actually closer than the round of 8 in D2. Pretty solid evidence that shrinking the numbers doesn't generate better games.

Semi-Finals
A- 16.5
C1- 34.5
C2- 28.5
D1- 26
D2- 32.5

You will again notice that the victory margin increased in D2 from round of 8 to round of 4. Again, more evidence that decreasing the teams doesn't generate better games. The same happened in D1.

Five of the 6 classes averaged a 3 score game or more in the semis. 4 of the 6 classes averaged a 4 score game or more in the semis. To say that blowouts are more prominent in the first round of 8 man football is flat out inaccurate.

Here is a fact.... It doesn't matter how many teams you take the playoffs, the best teams are going to blow everyone out (regardless of opposition's record). Aquinas' closest game in C-2 was a 29 point finals win over Oakland-Craig (that win was higher than the scoring average of Northeast Nebraska's proposed first round games in D-1 with 16 teams.....28.875). Aquinas' second closest game was 35 points against LHNE, who went 4-5 on the year. Great teams are miles ahead of good teams. Every year there are 1-4 great teams in each class and then a bunch of good and decent teams. Unless you only take the great teams to the playoffs, expect blowouts throughout the playoffs.

Excellent research and agree to disagree on some things for sure. And I agree on records don't show everything, but I still don't believe a 2-6 or 3-5 or 4-4 team should be in the playoffs. Totally agree with the Nebraska side of this though, as a couple bounces go there way this year they finish 9-3 or 10-2. That can happen to a team at the high school level, but I just don't see it happening in a span of 5 losses throughout a 8 game schedule.

I've always enjoyed your posts @hailvictors2. It's good to get some sort of discussion on these boards again. Not the same as it used to be 5-6 years ago.

 

[runningback43]

In 2012 in Class C-2, Ponca was 4-4 and went on the road to play Elmwood Murdock. I think EM was 6-2. Ponca beat them in the first round. Fast forward to 2015-16 and Ponca doesn't make the playoffs. Elmwood Murdock does make the playoffs. Ponca not only won their first round game, but also their second round game against Hartington Cedar Catholic. Hartington wouldn't have made the playoffs that year either under the current plan, but their opponent would have. 32 might be to many according to some people, but I still like it. South Dakota has a class that has 18 teams in it, and 16 of them make the playoffs.

 

[hailvictors2]

The playoff debate will go on and on with no "right" answer. Again I will point to college games as an example. Everyone hated the BCS and wanted a playoff. Then they got a playoff and in 2 years there has been 1 good game out of the 6 played. Some people want to expand the playoff to 8 teams, some want to leave it at 4, some want to eliminate it all together. It's that old thought process of the grass is always greener...I love watching the NCAA Basketball tourney because of the upsets, but at the same time I think it almost defeats the purpose of the tournament (to find the best team). I think it was 2011 that VCU (11 seed) and Butler (8 or 9 seed) were in the final 4. If either one of those teams had won it would there have been anyone outside of their campus that thought they were actually the best team? The more teams you invite, the less likely you are to find the true "best". It becomes more of a "who is hot, who is not".

I really believe that a 2 loss team should never be left out, no matter who they played. Some stats to validate my opinion... Since 2000 the following 2+ loss teams have won state titles
Class A-
Millard North-2015
Millard North-2010
Omaha Central-2007

Class B-
Skutt-2014
Crete-2000 (3 loss team)

Class C-2
Plainview-2005

Class D-2
Lewiston-2001

It doesn't happen a lot, but that is 7 state champions that could have been left at home.

 

[huskerfan1414]

In 8 man we need to remember that a 30 point difference is not as big a blowout as a 30 point difference is in 11 man. I know it's still a blowout, but points can be scored fast in 8 man and I would equate a 30 point win in 8 man to a 17-20 point win in 11. Just a rough guess.
24 teams is what it needs to be. There's nothing wrong with 1st round byes. I think it should be 24 for C1 and C2 as well.
16 is too few in D-1. It's that simple. I hate 3 win teams making the playoffs, but it's better than a 7 win team being left out, which could happen in 16.----especially when teams are at the mercy of the NSAA in regards to district and scheduling.

 

[scuba8803]

I agree with the 24 teams, reward teams by giving them a bye week. I looked at playoffs in the past and it seems like 24 teams gives the on the bubble teams with a tough schedule in the playoffs. Also the NSAA needs to quite dividing it up east and west. Seed the teams according to power points 1-24. I have coached at small schools and the ones I was at don't mind to travel. If the distance is to far then play at a neutral sight.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I agree with the 24 teams, reward teams by giving them a bye week. I looked at playoffs in the past and it seems like 24 teams gives the on the bubble teams with a tough schedule to make the playoffs. Also the NSAA needs to quite dividing it up east and west. Seed the teams according to power points. If the distance is to far then play at a neutral sight.

ALL that is a great idea but the D1 schools have voted all those ideas down, they like a water down playoff system and 20% of the teams cant make playoffs

 

[scuba8803]

Have they voted down the 24 team or was it proposed to go to 16? I am just asking because it has been awhile since I was at a small school.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Have they voted down the 24 team or was it proposed to go to 16? I am just asking because it has been awhile since I was at a small school.

It didnt make it out of district meetings before it got voted down

 

[scuba8803]

It didnt make it out of district meetings before it got voted down

thanks for the info, didn't know that. if thats how they want then leave it alone.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

thanks for the info, didn't know that. if thats how they want then leave it alone.

I am with you its needs changed but it hard to get change

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

In my opinion it is not about calling it a playoff game, we all know most first round "playoff" games are a joke. Usually the best teams will roll, with a few upsets from time to time. In class c1 and c2 teams with more playoff points are kept out due to not being a district champ, that should not happen ever, especially a two loss team. last year was evidence enough with some very mediocre teams making the playoffs and other teams left at home. In D1 and D2 I would argue that player safety has to come into play when a team with an 0-8 record has a playoff game against an undefeated team. Most coaches hopefully would do the right thing, get the lead and let younger kids play.

 

[Buff-alo]

This dead horse has been beaten year after year....nothing will happen until the NSAA starts giving a $#!T about anything below Class A. The current number for 8 man in our state is reckless and not even close to other states that offer 8 man football. At least they are considering classifying football by number of boys in 9-11 in the next cycle. That might start helping sort this mess out a little bit. The truth is Nebraska is not the football crazy state it once was and participating for your high school football team is no longer expected. When picking the 8 man to 11 man cut-off line the NSAA needs to put some real thought into that. They are considering 47 which is still to low. To get 30 kids out you would need a 65% participation rate in your school, are we still getting that in our schools. What about ESL, mentally challenged students, or physically handicapped kids? When you are drawing from a pool of 47 that is a pretty big blow to your participation numbers. If you have a combination of 5 to 10 of these students being factored into your number of 47 that in no way can help your program. I really think they need to find out what participation percentage are across the state and the dynamics of your student population and base the number on that as well. I totally agree the D1 play-offs is a mess this year...but it is not the fault of the teams opting down. They are doing what is in the best interest of their schools. This mess should be laid at the feet of the NSAA, this is a problem they have ignored and swept under the rug for years and now they are finally addressing it about 6 seasons to late. How many games have high school players lost in the past several seasons in C2 because of canceled games? All I have to say is shame on the NSAA.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

This dead horse has been beaten year after year....nothing will happen until the NSAA starts giving a $#!T about anything below Class A. The current number for 8 man in our state is reckless and not even close to other states that offer 8 man football. At least they are considering classifying football by number of boys in 9-11 in the next cycle. That might start helping sort this mess out a little bit. The truth is Nebraska is not the football crazy state it once was and participating for your high school football team is no longer expected. When picking the 8 man to 11 man cut-off line the NSAA needs to put some real thought into that. They are considering 47 which is still to low. To get 30 kids out you would need a 65% participation rate in your school, are we still getting that in our schools. What about ESL, mentally challenged students, or physically handicapped kids? When you are drawing from a pool of 47 that is a pretty big blow to your participation numbers. If you have a combination of 5 to 10 of these students being factored into your number of 47 that in no way can help your program. I really think they need to find out what participation percentage are across the state and the dynamics of your student population and base the number on that as well. I totally agree the D1 play-offs is a mess this year...but it is not the fault of the teams opting down. They are doing what is in the best interest of their schools. This mess should be laid at the feet of the NSAA, this is a problem they have ignored and swept under the rug for years and now they are finally addressing it about 6 seasons to late. How many games have high school players lost in the past several seasons in C2 because of canceled games? All I have to say is shame on the NSAA.

Its not the NSAA fault at all, it is the fault of the class D schools, they are the ones who have voted down proposed enrollment increase for D-1 Its a joke and mess because that is what they want, joke is on D-1 schools the recipients of the joke is our Nebraska students. Sad but TRUE

 

[nenebskers]

Very good points in the last two posts. I tend to agree with Buffalo but Nut you make ano excellent point as well.

My question is this. When D1 schools vote on the enrollment cutoff, are the schools who opt down included in that vote? If not I understand why it continues to be shot down. Also, wouldn't it make sense to allow schools in C-2, or schools under a certain enrollment, to vote as well since ultimately these are the school's that are effected each year and are opting down?

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Very good points in the last two posts. I tend to agree with Buffalo but Nut you make ano excellent point as well.

My question is this. When D1 schools vote on the enrollment cutoff, are the schools who opt down included in that vote? If not I understand why it continues to be shot down. Also, wouldn't it make sense to allow schools in C-2, or schools under a certain enrollment, to vote as well since ultimately these are the school's that are effected each year and are opting down?

All schools all classes can vote on everything

 

[Buff-alo]

Its not the NSAA fault at all, it is the fault of the class D schools, they are the ones who have voted down proposed enrollment increase for D-1 Its a joke and mess because that is what they want, joke is on D-1 schools the recipients of the joke is our Nebraska students. Sad but TRUE

The vote is made by A.D.'s and/or Adminstrators....unfortunately we are stuck in the old school way of thinking "This is the way we've always done it and it's worked for us in the past so why change it?" mentality. That was the past, when Husker Football reigned supreme and every boy in high school wanted to play under the Friday night lights for a chance to live out those dreams. Those days are gone, interest has diminished and kids are far more distracted then 20 years ago. A lot of times you simply got kids out for football because it was better then sitting at home with 3 t.v. channels, no computer, no internet, and no phone. They played football because you got a chance to hang out with your buddies longer and it kept you from dying of boredom. Times have changed and our classification system needs to change. Towns are shrinking and what used to work is now broken. Let's fix it....

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

The vote is made by A.D.'s and/or Adminstrators....unfortunately we are stuck in the old school way of thinking "This is the way we've always done it and it's worked for us in the past so why change it?" mentality. That was the past, when Husker Football reigned supreme and every boy in high school wanted to play under the Friday night lights for a chance to live out those dreams. Those days are gone, interest has diminished and kids are far more distracted then 20 years ago. A lot of times you simply got kids out for football because it was better then sitting at home with 3 t.v. channels, no computer, no internet, and no phone. They played football because you got a chance to hang out with your buddies longer and it kept you from dying of boredom. Times have changed and our classification system needs to change. Towns are shrinking and what used to work is now broken. Let's fix it....

BINGO

 

[gymmyhix]

It bugs me because playoff births should be earned, not handed out.

You are right, just like Basketball, Wrestling, Track, Cross Country, Volleyball, and Golf....OH wait.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

You are right, just like Basketball, Wrestling, Track, Cross Country, Volleyball, and Golf....OH wait.

Not getting your point

 

[runningback43]

You are right, just like Basketball, Wrestling, Track, Cross Country, Volleyball, and Golf....OH wait.

I might be wrong, but I think his point is that some districts in basketball, wrestling, track, cross country and golf are a lot easier than other districts. In those easy districts state births are handed out.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I might be wrong, but I think his point is that some districts in basketball, wrestling, track, cross country and golf are a lot easier than other districts. In those easy districts state births are handed out.

Class B has the perfect system to fix that

 

[gymmyhix]

I might be wrong, but I think his point is that some districts in basketball, wrestling, track, cross country and golf are a lot easier than other districts. In those easy districts state births are handed out.

Everyone still makes it to some form of playoff.