There are C1 teams with these numbers. My kid plays for Conestoga, they have 27 kids on the roster. They had been averaging 10-12 kids per class playing, now this year the freshman and sophomore classes have less than 5 players per class, when they had 12+ per class playing at the Jr. High level. The JV schedule will be determined game by game, which really hurts development of underclassmen.
Omaha Brownell-Talbot will forfeit 2017 season
- Thread starter Alum-Ni
- Start date
There are C1 teams with these numbers. My kid plays for Conestoga, they have 27 kids on the roster. They had been averaging 10-12 kids per class playing, now this year the freshman and sophomore classes have less than 5 players per class, when they had 12+ per class playing at the Jr. High level. The JV schedule will be determined game by game, which really hurts development of underclassmen.
Their roster on MaxPreps shows 9 kids. They'd struggle to field a 6 man team.
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/brownell-talbot-raiders-(omaha,ne)/football/roster.htm
http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/brownell-talbot-raiders-(omaha,ne)/football/roster.htm
I'm surprised they haven't co-op'd sports with someone in Omaha. Roncalli isn't that far away.
I will agree 20 is very tough, if thats what they have I understand but 24 to 28 then your just being stupid
http://journalstar.com/sports/high-...cle_bdbc4217-e334-5436-b63e-296d2ccaabad.html
Brownell-Talbot and OCA are co-oping for an 8 man JV schedule this year.
Brownell-Talbot and OCA are co-oping for an 8 man JV schedule this year.
I can't believe they are still open. They've had numbers issues for many years now. Surprised many haven't sent their kids to Wayne.
Latest I've heard is Winside has 10-11 out and trying to play their season. Not many option to Wayne as Wayne is pretty overcrowded as it is. Winside does, however, have close to 9 boys out for Cross country and will have plenty out for basketball and have a decent season.
i wonder how many of these small schools that have problems with numbers are also offering two sports in the same season. I believe this is a huge mistake and in small schools is just plain dumb, I dont care which one you offer but pick one.
I talked with a high school senior last week who thought about quitting football. He is a very good wrestler and turned an ankle during football practice and doesn't want to jeopardize his wrestling season by getting hurt. He has a chance to wrestle in college and receive some financial assistance doing so. That I believe is bigger factor than the concussion issue. More colleges now are offering some financial packages for sports other than football & basketball. Which leads kids(and parents) to specializing in one sport and that is really whats killing football especially at the smaller schools, even at some larger schools that are not traditional football schools. I know of the kids at Omaha Christian that played football last season had decided he wasn't playing football this season to concentrate on basketball. Wrestlers now spend all summer going to camps and tournaments. Baseball players have fall ball. Basketball players can travel the midwest playing tournaments all summer. Even football with its summer 7 on 7 leagues is hurting itself by forcing kids to commit to one sport because of the time involved or by coaches forcing athletes to commit to one sport or the other over the summer. Gone are the days of summer for baseball, fall is football and winter for basketball.
I think it's a problem too. That's one reason why I've been in favor of making schools larger. More activities, but more participation in the activities.
Why have football if you can't field a team? Might as well just have a cross country team. Or just a football team. Not both.
My high school didn't have cross country and at the time we were the smallest C2 in the state for football and were D1 in everything else.
Specializing is really hurting small town Nebraska sports I agree. But parents also need to realize colleges like it when athletes play more than one sport. Because most of the time these small town kids are being recruited to NAIA or D2 schools who are going to take you no matter what.
They aren't going to guide you from not playing basketball if you have a football scholarship, they'll more than likely encourage you to participate in all sports.
Unless your a freak in high school like Reggie Bush, there is no reason not to compete in other sports. You can get hurt riding your bike to school. It makes you better and keeps your mind in competition mode.
You can get a $5000.00 scholarship for playing a sport at one of nebraskas private colleges GPAC for having a pulse and that I know for a fact. I love when I hear a basketball kid say he is only going out for basketball to get ready for college in a state that is NOT even close to having 15 kids below class A playing basketball in college at all and maybe 10 kids leave the state maybe. Get real basketball in Nebraska LAZY IS THE PROBLEM and PARENTS WHO do not care if they are lazy
So its dumb to offer an individual an opportunity to compete in something other than football and have an opportunity to be successful just because "you" don't like the other sport or its not "your" favorite sport.?????
I never said football I SAID CHOOSE ONE,( maybe you should carefully read before you speak ) If its cross country so be it IF you want more choices then go to a larger school. small schools who offer two sports at the same time only hurt each other
Serious question regarding highschoolfootballnut's general premise:
How common is it for schools in the D1/C2 range to only offer one sport per season? Is this like a real thing? I obviously don't keep tabs on schools and what sport every one offers, but that seems like a bit much, especially when some of those sports don't actually require a whole team to allow someone to compete.
Using the football/cross country example: No matter how you slice it, CC is an individual sport that gets scored and then they make it a "team" sport by combining the other individual performances. If I'm not mistaken it's possible to win the state championship as an individual and be the only person from your team to be competing, right? So I think sports like this might as well be offered at the same time, because you don't actually need a full team to still compete.
Same thing would apply to basketball/wrestling in the winter. Wrestling is even more individualized because you can only wrestle people within a certain weightrange. You're not actually competing against everyone on a team anyway (like you would in a CC race). I've wrestling teams with 3 guys at state finish in the top 8 in the lower classes.
I played at a D1/C2 school.
How much crossover is there for kids between cross country and football. I can personally think of 2 people I was in high school with that went between the two sports (one went from FB to CC and the other went CC to FB)? I mean not hate on the CC folks, but I can't imagine there's a high percentage of those CC folks that would go out for football if that was the only sport offered.
Same thing with basketball/wrestling. I can honestly say I did not know anyone who made a switch between these sports in high school and I really don't think the two state champion wrestlers on our less than full roster would have decided to go out for basketball because that was the only sport offered for the season.
I'm not saying that there aren't times where a school should probably crunch the numbers and really look and whether they will be competitive and see if it makes sense to offer two sports in the same season, because maybe that makes sense once in a while. But how common is it for schools to be doing this right now?
How common is it for schools in the D1/C2 range to only offer one sport per season? Is this like a real thing? I obviously don't keep tabs on schools and what sport every one offers, but that seems like a bit much, especially when some of those sports don't actually require a whole team to allow someone to compete.
Using the football/cross country example: No matter how you slice it, CC is an individual sport that gets scored and then they make it a "team" sport by combining the other individual performances. If I'm not mistaken it's possible to win the state championship as an individual and be the only person from your team to be competing, right? So I think sports like this might as well be offered at the same time, because you don't actually need a full team to still compete.
Same thing would apply to basketball/wrestling in the winter. Wrestling is even more individualized because you can only wrestle people within a certain weightrange. You're not actually competing against everyone on a team anyway (like you would in a CC race). I've wrestling teams with 3 guys at state finish in the top 8 in the lower classes.
I played at a D1/C2 school.
How much crossover is there for kids between cross country and football. I can personally think of 2 people I was in high school with that went between the two sports (one went from FB to CC and the other went CC to FB)? I mean not hate on the CC folks, but I can't imagine there's a high percentage of those CC folks that would go out for football if that was the only sport offered.
Same thing with basketball/wrestling. I can honestly say I did not know anyone who made a switch between these sports in high school and I really don't think the two state champion wrestlers on our less than full roster would have decided to go out for basketball because that was the only sport offered for the season.
I'm not saying that there aren't times where a school should probably crunch the numbers and really look and whether they will be competitive and see if it makes sense to offer two sports in the same season, because maybe that makes sense once in a while. But how common is it for schools to be doing this right now?
I don't agree with it. Having a football team isn't a prerequisite to having a high school. Basketball/wrestling is a good point, there are many teams in the lower classes that have only a handful of wrestlers out and many of the best teams, state champion teams fail to fill every weight class. Sometimes this is because of several kids at the same weight, but mostly because of overall numbers. As far as football, I'm not sure that telling a kid that his undersized for football or simply doesn't like football, but likes to compete athletically that his only option is to play football or sit in the stands.
High schools should provide opportunities, both academically and athletically within reason, for the entire student body, not just the ones in shoulder pads.
High schools should provide opportunities, both academically and athletically within reason, for the entire student body, not just the ones in shoulder pads.
Again I never said football, you assume to a fault, bad trait in a debate and keeping it on topic But oh well, You can't have your cake and eat it to, you cant complain about teams forfeiting and still have the lowest enrollment in 8-man to qualify for state in the USA and offer multiple activities at the same time, and be a small school, and still not eat your cake, you have to choose and sometimes its tough choices OR you have to shut up and just let it be
I didn't assume anything(which is ironic since you ASSUME that schools having two sports hurt each sport), you made it very clear you believe smaller schools should only have one sport per season. Honestly how many schools, using you recommendation, are going to choose cross country over football? Or wrestling over basketball? That's not a solution. This is purely a football question, just because of the team number required. That eliminates opportunities for students and will accelerate the death of those smaller schools. The boy only enrollment was a step in right direction. What's needed is the NSAA to be more flexible when these numbers situations arise at smaller schools, approving cooperatives quicker when the situation calls for it. For instance a few years ago, Dorchester decided it could not field a team over the summer and its players played for Milford. However the Dorchester seniors could not play on varsity because of the NSAA timeline for approval of the coop. They need to be more proactive in that regard. Also expanding the rules to allow schools to opt down a class if a high percentage of the boy enrollment is 9/10th grade for a cycle. I'm sure administrators at these schools have other ideas, the NSAA really needs to address it.
I do agree with your earlier statement, a big issue is parent participation. I've seen it time & time again, for the most part the parents that are involved in the school and the community have kids in athletics and usually the best players(not just athletically, but academically as well). Its no secret that is part of why the private school have success, the parents are invested in school, not just dumping them off at the front door for four years.
Nebraska needs more co-ops and consolidations. Plain and simple. I think it will help in the long run, these towns can't avoid the invitable. Get ahead of the situation and put yourself (as a school) in a better spot for 20 years down the road.
I just don't understand how schools like Scribner-Snyder, Mead, Stuart, Elgin/Pope John, and High Plains even want to go alone?
How is it fair to the kids? It shouldn't make parents or coaches feel better that they can barely field a team but oh wait, the games are in our town and it has our town name on the jersey so that's better than co-opting with the town down the highway.
They will all be barely able to field teams this year. Each of these schools have close options down the road less than 10 miles away.
SS has Logan View
Mead has Yutan or Wahoo
Stuart has West Holt
Elgin has Neligh-Oakdale
High Plains has Cross County or Osceola.
Personally I'd rather just see consolidation. It makes things easier down the road and you don't run into issues like Clearwater and Orchard are having.
I just don't understand how schools like Scribner-Snyder, Mead, Stuart, Elgin/Pope John, and High Plains even want to go alone?
How is it fair to the kids? It shouldn't make parents or coaches feel better that they can barely field a team but oh wait, the games are in our town and it has our town name on the jersey so that's better than co-opting with the town down the highway.
They will all be barely able to field teams this year. Each of these schools have close options down the road less than 10 miles away.
SS has Logan View
Mead has Yutan or Wahoo
Stuart has West Holt
Elgin has Neligh-Oakdale
High Plains has Cross County or Osceola.
Personally I'd rather just see consolidation. It makes things easier down the road and you don't run into issues like Clearwater and Orchard are having.
I do agree with your earlier statement, a big issue is parent participation. I've seen it time & time again, for the most part the parents that are involved in the school and the community have kids in athletics and usually the best players(not just athletically, but academically as well). Its no secret that is part of why the private school have success, the parents are invested in school, not just dumping them off at the front door for four years.[/QUOTE]
The last paragraph of you statement is the most truth spoke on hear in awhile and one of the best statement and the REAL problem. YOU are 100% correct. We live in a world where we want everyone to fix our problems and believe no one should fail, PARENTS they are your kids if you dont care who else will. I find it funny you have to take a test or pass exam to get just about anything in your life, but to be the most important thing in the world a Parent you just have to be able to reproduce.
The last paragraph of you statement is the most truth spoke on hear in awhile and one of the best statement and the REAL problem. YOU are 100% correct. We live in a world where we want everyone to fix our problems and believe no one should fail, PARENTS they are your kids if you dont care who else will. I find it funny you have to take a test or pass exam to get just about anything in your life, but to be the most important thing in the world a Parent you just have to be able to reproduce.
One reason, IMO, people resist consolidations is because it can be a death sentence to a small town to lose the school. Has nothing to do with sports, a town that loses a physical school plant is a a dying town. Teachers don't live there, people don't travel there everyday, it really is a linchpin of the community.
The thing is the majority of the time the town is already dead before they even consolidate. Venango was dead in the early 80's and their school was open until the mid to late 80's. In some cases the teachers don't even live in those dying towns, they live in a nicer community and commute back and forth.
I suppose that is true in the western part of the state, but as these consolidations more more easterly you can pinpoint the demise of the towns gradually after the physical school plant closed.
In at least 2 of those scenarios, SS with LV and Mead with Yutan/Wahoo, you have a D2 school with a big C2 or a C1 school. You watch if and when these coops do happen in the future. The class D school will completely lose their identity. No more school colors, no more games in their towns, where's the need for a dance team or a pep band. Kiss the booster club goodbye. Bye bye school pride, and eventually bye bye school and community. On top of that, many kids won't go out the first few years anyways just because they don't want to play for another school.
Let's take it one step further. If any of those coops were to happen, that would very likely bump them to C1, which we all know is extremely tough in Northeast Nebraska. Now you get to play Norfolk Catholic, Aquinas, Neumann, Wahoo, Scotus, Pierce, etc., etc. week after week. Great, you have enough kids to field a team and as a reward, you get to go out and get your butts kicked week in and week out.
There are definitely reasons to need to coop, but it is not an end all cure all answer.
I totally agree Sox. While some always push for coops, and some are always against, I'm very much in the middle. If it makes sense economically, logistically, culturally, etc., by all means do it! If it doesn't, don't.
"The class D school will completely lose their identity. No more school colors, no more games in their towns, where's the need for a dance team or a pep band. Kiss the booster club goodbye."
Some of these schools like Stapleton and OBT who can't play this year due to numbers lost their identity already by not being able to field a team. They lost their school colors and games in there town because they don't have enough kids to field a team. The booster club is fine to have but they don't have a team to support....I've seen plenty of consolidations work, it takes time but it works if the communities want it to work.
"On top of that, many kids won't go out the first few years anyways just because they don't want to play for another school."
BS on that. If a kid is really a competitor, you go to the new school and show them what your made of. Don't be afraid of competition and learn to play with others. Don't be so shortsighted. Let's take this one step further....
"Let's take it one step further. If any of those coops were to happen, that would very likely bump them to C1, which we all know is extremely tough in Northeast Nebraska. Now you get to play Norfolk Catholic, Aquinas, Neumann, Wahoo, Scotus, Pierce, etc., etc. week after week. Great, you have enough kids to field a team and as a reward, you get to go out and get your butts kicked week in and week out."
So you are already admitting defeat? Wow that shows great school pride by you and your booster club. I seem to remember Columbus Scotus not being a powerhouse until 3 years ago. They would make playoffs but they didn't bulldoze people like they do now. They got better because they worked harder than they had before. Pierce has taken a step back compared to where they were 8-10 years ago. It goes in cycles.
What is more of a reward? Being able to play a season with 10 guys on your team and winning two or three games? Or playing on a team with more coaches, and more players with the chance to improve to be a better program and you go 3-6 or 4-5 in year one? I'd take the second option every day of the week.
I would much rather be apart of a program that has some stability and doesn't have to worry about not being able to have a game Friday. Than barely being able to field a team/not being able to field a team.
You miss the main points of what I am saying. I never said anything about Stapleton or OBT in my initial statement. Read again. I said in the cases of SS and LV or Mead and Wahoo, these class D schools will lose their identity.
The very last statement I made was that "There are definitely reasons to need to coop, but it is not an end all cure all answer." In the cases of Stapleton and/or OBT, that may be the answer. However, there are options before a Coop that can happen. 6 man is making a rise, and it is never discussed. Some community members don't even want to talk about it because they don't think that it is real football. Our high school could put 12-16 kids on the field every year for the foreseeable future, and could compete well at 6 man on our own. Some don't even want to discuss it, not an option, just coop.
You call BS on kids not going out, but I will throw my own BS flag back your way on that. Our school board began talking about a coop for next cycle last spring. There were 3 kids that went to a private school because they didn't want to play for the school being talked about for a coop, another kid moved away with his mom because he didn't want to play for that school either, and he couldn't afford the private school. And a 5th kids family said if they were going to coop sports, then he should just go to school there then too, so they open enrolled him there to start his freshmen year. We cooped basketball with the same neighboring district. Had we stayed on our own, we would've had about 11 boys play. We took 6 there the 1st year and only 1 boy the 2nd year. Some kids just don't want to represent another school. I know you say that they aren't competitors then, and I agree to some extent. But, I know for a fact that if a coop would have happened 4 years ago when your own cousin went through school here, he was transferring to a private school up the road. Words directly from his mouth.