District Basketball Finals

[hoops103165]

Can someone explain to me why the girls get a week to prepare for the district finals and the boys get one day? Class B girls get almost 2 weeks to prepare for State. I am confused. Seems like that is a big challenge for the guys to get done Thursday night and then the sub district winners have to figure out who they play and then they have to get a site organized and scouting and game planning all in one day. It used to be Monday , which I thought was ok. The other challenge is the NSAA points have not been updating till the next day. The C1 girls did not update till Friday at 930 am. That is fine for them but would be a bigger issue for the boys.

Thoughts?

 

[All N]

I know for Class B, the schools wanted the district final games to be on Saturday for travel purposes. I am guessing with the move for C-1, C-2, D-1, and D-2 to the Sub-state/District Final format, they wanted the same thing so in the case where teams have to travel across the state, they have Friday night to travel for a Saturday game. Just puts more work on the coaches to have potential matchups looked at. I am also guessing that the NSAA will be all over those numbers Thursday night with the quick turn-around. With the girls, they had a whole week so getting the numbers out quickly wasn't necessarily needed.

 

[runningback43]

Hopefully the NSAA updates everything a lot earlier than they did for the girls. It was a pain in the butt trying to figure everything out for the girls district finals. With a short turn around, points need to be updated and the pairings need to be posted by 7:00 on Friday morning.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I’d assume it’s because of travel and having school the next day is why they aren’t playing substate on a Tuesday.

The NSAA will have to look at readjusting the calendar.

 

[Alum-Ni]

The LJS talks a little about this short turnaround

https://journalstar.com/sports/high...cle_5d3df220-8a4f-569d-b74a-d98d9adcd627.html

Ron Powell, author of the article, would like to see the following changes to the postseason format:

1) Eliminate the sub-district tournaments by going to round-robin play among the "subdistrict" teams late in the regular season. Almost all of these matchups already happen during the regular season, just schedule them for the end of the season.

2) Eliminate Subdistrict/Districts completely in Class B and just seed a 32-team bracket based off power points. First two rounds at home of higher seed, final three rounds would be the 8-team state tournament

3) In C and D, take the 12 subdistrict (round-robin) winners and add 20 wildcard teams to make the same 32-team seeded bracket like B.

 

[runningback43]

I like number 2 and think that should happen all the way through D2. Take the top 32 teams in powerpoints and seed it. I am not a fan of the subdistrict/district format.

 

[speedy66]

I like number 2 and think that should happen all the way through D2. Take the top 32 teams in powerpoints and seed it. I am not a fan of the subdistrict/district format.

I guess i’m old school but basketball is a tournament sport and I believe everyone should have an opportunity to play their way into the state championship. 300 plus teams in division 1 are given the opportunity to play their way into the NCAA tournament. Therefore, i’m not a fan of limiting the field to 32 teams. I find it interesting that a sports writer is criticizing a format before it’s even played out and his main arguing point is the scheduling of the district finals. I’m sorry, those are two seperate issues in my opinion

 

[coach hager]

I can't believe anybody would want to go with 32 teams determined by the point system. The first two weeks of the football playoffs all I read is people complaining about travel and blow outs. You also have the people complaining about teams being left out. I do like the sub state format but there is no need to change the sub districts!

 

[coach3405]

First off I like the SubState format, although if you want to give the best teams a chance to make it through their subs, don’t have preseason determined sub districts. Seed them on February 1st with top 12 teams all being 1 seeds and adjust from there. Travel is not an agument here. I coach and we traveled 2 hours to our subdistrict.(all teams in our sub travelled east.). Give the top 12 teams best shot to win their subs and if 1,2 or 3 slip up, they then get redemption in substate through the wildcard

 

[runningback43]

I guess i’m old school but basketball is a tournament sport and I believe everyone should have an opportunity to play their way into the state championship. 300 plus teams in division 1 are given the opportunity to play their way into the NCAA tournament. Therefore, i’m not a fan of limiting the field to 32 teams. I find it interesting that a sports writer is criticizing a format before it’s even played out and his main arguing point is the scheduling of the district finals. I’m sorry, those are two seperate issues in my opinion

The reason I would like to limit it to 32 is because there are a lot of teams with sub 500 records that really have no chance of making it out of a sub district game. When there are 60 fans or less at these games I just don't understand how it makes sense to even have these bunny bracket sub district games.

 

[Alum-Ni]

First off I like the SubState format, although if you want to give the best teams a chance to make it through their subs, don’t have preseason determined sub districts. Seed them on February 1st with top 12 teams all being 1 seeds and adjust from there. Travel is not an agument here. I coach and we traveled 2 hours to our subdistrict.(all teams in our sub travelled east.). Give the top 12 teams best shot to win their subs and if 1,2 or 3 slip up, they then get redemption in substate through the wildcard

I kind of like this idea. Split up the top 12 teams (via power points I imagine) and then you can break up the rest geographically.

 

[Alum-Ni]

With the weather forecast for this weekend, I doubt many games, if any, get played on Saturday anyway.

 

[coach3405]

With the weather forecast for this weekend, I doubt many games, if any, get played on Saturday anyway.

I sat down last night and the number 1 seeds are where they were when subdistricts got announced. The number to the right is miles from host site. Also figured with bunny brackets you could have the 4-5 seeds meet halfway somewhere. I like running numbers this interested me.

@Twin River (Genoa)

1. Elm Creek 116

2. Deshler 106

3. Clarkson-Leigh 51

4 Emerson Hubbard 107

5 Cedar Bluffs 66


@Battle Creek

1 Humphrey/Lindsey 30

2 Hartington-Newcastle 60

3 Pender57

4 Niobrara Verdigre 72

5. Homer 105


@Broken Bow

1 Paxton 108

2 North Central 98

3 Shelton 79

4Arapahoe 84

5. Elwood 64


@Columbus

1 Overton 97

2 Pleasanton 73

3 College View Academy 89

4Plainview 102




@Crete

1 Kenesaw 96

2Heartland 59

3 Meridian 40

4 Pawnee City76

5 Weeping Water 59


@St. Paul

1 Anselmo-Merna77

2 West Holt109

3McCool Junction77

4 Elkhorn Valley99


@Norfolk Catholic

1 Fullerton 74

2 Clearwater-Orchard 55

3 Bloomfield 46

4Allen53


@Cambridge

1 Dundy County/Stratton 78

2 Wilcox – Hildreth 60

3 Southwest 14

4Hitchcock County 38

5. Franklin 73





@Wahoo

1 Archbishop Bergan47

2 Omaha Christian 48

3 Lourdes Central Catholic 51

4 East Butler 50


@Sutherland

1 Wauneta-Palisade 79

2 Axtell 130

3 Garden County 74

4 Minatare 145

5 Maywood/Hayes Center 56


@Ord

1 Ansley- Litchfield 43

2 Boyd County 110

3 Bertrand 110

4 Harvard 106

5 Palmer 56


Lexington

1 North Platte St. Pats 65

2 Burwell 98

3 Sandhills-Thedford 87

4 Maxwell 51

5. Twin Loup 85

 

[coach hager]

I don't think you can go by records when it comes to D2. My boys plays at a D2 school that half their schedule is against D1 teams and we are a 500 team. Play more D2 teams and their record may be better. I looked at some local D1 schedules and they only play up a class for 3 or 4 games a season and they play a lot of D2 teams. My opinion is they need to get rid of the last game of the season on Friday and start the subs on Saturday and play the following Monday and Tuesday. Gives teams at least three days to get ready for the sub state game.

 

[Yossarian23]

I don't think you can go by records when it comes to D2. My boys plays at a D2 school that half their schedule is against D1 teams and we are a 500 team. Play more D2 teams and their record may be better. I looked at some local D1 schedules and they only play up a class for 3 or 4 games a season and they play a lot of D2 teams. My opinion is they need to get rid of the last game of the season on Friday and start the subs on Saturday and play the following Monday and Tuesday. Gives teams at least three days to get ready for the sub state game.

This.

D2 can be weird due to conference affiliation and location.

Someone brought up Mead falling to .500 in another thread.

Last year Mead made it to State and ended up with an 11-13 record after losing in the first round. That's usually a recipe for us to complain on here about a team not deserving to be there.

But last year, in those 24 games, they played 6 D2 opponents, and 4 of them were at subs, districts and state. Went 5-1 in those games. They played 13 games against C1 and C2 schools.

 

[runningback43]

I think six classes is too many classes for our population. Not sure what the right amount is though.

 

[speedy66]

I don't think you can go by records when it comes to D2. My boys plays at a D2 school that half their schedule is against D1 teams and we are a 500 team. Play more D2 teams and their record may be better. I looked at some local D1 schedules and they only play up a class for 3 or 4 games a season and they play a lot of D2 teams. My opinion is they need to get rid of the last game of the season on Friday and start the subs on Saturday and play the following Monday and Tuesday. Gives teams at least three days to get ready for the sub state game.

Good point. D2 schools can’t play down like everyone else. Not to mention the top of the class is really good too

 

[speedy66]

I think six classes is too many classes for our population. Not sure what the right amount is though.

The disparity between talent level of teams in D2 is already significant. Are you sure you want to make it worse by reducing classes and making it more significant?

 

[runningback43]

The disparity between talent level of teams in D2 is already significant. Are you sure you want to make it worse by reducing classes and making it more significant?

There is a lot of disparity from top to bottom in all of the classes. I don't know what the answer is. I just think we have too many classes. There were a lot more schools in the state when they went to the 6 class system 37 years ago or so. When I was growing up, Wheatland, Venango, Chappell, Lodgepole, Big Springs, Brule, Palisade, Wauneta, Bartley, Republican Valley, Culbertson, Trenton, Stratton, Oxford, Orleans and Beaver City were on there own. Now they are all consolidated.

 

[coachsloup]

Talk about a trip down memory “southwest Nebraska” lane rb43! For bonus points, can you name all their mascots!? Haha

 

[coach3405]

There is a lot of disparity from top to bottom in all of the classes. I don't know what the answer is. I just think we have too many classes. There were a lot more schools in the state when they went to the 6 class system 37 years ago or so. When I was growing up, Wheatland, Venango, Chappell, Lodgepole, Big Springs, Brule, Palisade, Wauneta, Bartley, Republican Valley, Culbertson, Trenton, Stratton, Oxford, Orleans and Beaver City were on there own. Now they are all consolidated.

Same way up north here not even 10 years ago, Niobrara Valley Conference had Lynch, Butte, Spencer-Naper(now Boyd Co.) Stuart, St. Mary’s, Keya Paha Co. and Rock Co. (now North Central), Chambers and Wheeler Central (CWC), Orchard, Clearwater, Elgin Pope John and Elgin Public, Verdigre and Niobrara, Santee. Most all them schools are co-oped for sports

 

[speedy66]

There is a lot of disparity from top to bottom in all of the classes. I don't know what the answer is. I just think we have too many classes. There were a lot more schools in the state when they went to the 6 class system 37 years ago or so. When I was growing up, Wheatland, Venango, Chappell, Lodgepole, Big Springs, Brule, Palisade, Wauneta, Bartley, Republican Valley, Culbertson, Trenton, Stratton, Oxford, Orleans and Beaver City were on there own. Now they are all consolidated.

You’re right, there are less schools, but I think the competitive disparities are even greater with less teams. You and I went to Ogallala when there were 64 teams in class B, now there’s 32 but the gap between top and bottom is probably worse now. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but I don’t know if there’s any good answers to these problems

 

[speedy66]

Talk about a trip down memory “southwest Nebraska” lane rb43! For bonus points, can you name all their mascots!? Haha

I know the post wasn’t directed at me but I’ll try. Wheatland Spartans, Chappell Buffaloes, Brule Huskies, Big Springs Trojans. That all I got.

 

[retnuh07]

Culbertson Bears, Bartley Bombers, Trenton Warriors

 

[runningback43]

You’re right, there are less schools, but I think the competitive disparities are even greater with less teams. You and I went to Ogallala when there were 64 teams in class B, now there’s 32 but the gap between top and bottom is probably worse now. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but I don’t know if there’s any good answers to these problems

I agree with you that there is a lot of disparity from the top to the bottom in all classes. I wish I knew what the answer was, but I do not. Enrollments are shrinking, schools are disappearing and new schools are opening in the metro areas.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I agree with you that there is a lot of disparity from the top to the bottom in all classes. I wish I knew what the answer was, but I do not. Enrollments are shrinking, schools are disappearing and new schools are opening in the metro areas.

get rid of two classes just have A-B-C-D in all sports then some schools will coop or start consolidating

 

[runningback43]

Talk about a trip down memory “southwest Nebraska” lane rb43! For bonus points, can you name all their mascots!? Haha

Wheatland Spartans, Venango Panthers, Chappell Buffaloes, Lodgepole Panthers, Big Springs Trojans, Brule Huskies, Stratton Bulldogs, Palisade Panthers, Wauneta Broncos, Bartley Bombers, Republican Valley Mustangs, Culbertson Bears, Trenton Warriors, Oxford Cardinals, Beaver City Bearcats. I do not know the mascot for Orleans.

To be fair, my Dad is from Chappell and my Mom is from Palisade. I've seen most of those schools play football and or basketball either against Chappell or Palisade. Go Buffs!

 

[runningback43]

get rid of two classes just have A-B-C-D in all sports then some schools will coop or start consolidating

I do not disagree with that, but there will be a lot of people complaining about the huge disparity in enrollments between the top and bottom in a four class system. The huge disparity in enrollments has led us to the mess we are in now. Omaha and Lincoln keeps getting bigger, and the rest of the state is getting smaller. Class A and B would have to have more schools. Some of the schools that are at the top of Class B would be at the bottom of A and so on.

 

[coachsloup]

Orleans Orioles rb43

 

[runningback43]

Orleans Orioles rb43

Thanks Coach Sloup. Coach Etzelmiller began his coaching career at Orleans and then went to Genoa. I find it kind of ironic that he went from one school that was the Orioles to another school that was the Orioles.

 

[nenebskers]

I do not disagree with that, but there will be a lot of people complaining about the huge disparity in enrollments between the top and bottom in a four class system. The huge disparity in enrollments has led us to the mess we are in now. Omaha and Lincoln keeps getting bigger, and the rest of the state is getting smaller. Class A and B would have to have more schools. Some of the schools that are at the top of Class B would be at the bottom of A and so on.

There is very little enrollment disparity in class D schools, even C2. Other states around the country have classes with 100+ schools. Iowa, a state very comparable to Nebraska, only has 4 classes. Minnesota has 8 sections in each class with 35+ schools in each section.

Look at the D2 district finals, one team has 7 wins which means they entered postseason with 5. I understand they, being D2, cant play down a class but there is not much differance between D1 and D2 enrollments. Only 12 of 55 schools in D2 boys basketball finished the regular season with a record above .500.

I agree, expand Class A just slightly, B just slightly, then divide C1-D2 to three or two classes. Never gonna be two but maybe three is possible. Problem is very few member schools will ever vote yes on it because it will lower their chances for the state tournament.

If we have lower number of classifications it would also help schools swallow the coop/consolidation pill. Everytime a coop or consolidation is discussed so often talks stop in part because schools are so ungodly afraid of being bumped up a class. Lower the number of classes and I guarentee that more coops would happen.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

There is very little enrollment disparity in class D schools, even C2. Other states around the country have classes with 100+ schools. Iowa, a state very comparable to Nebraska, only has 4 classes. Minnesota has 8 sections in each class with 35+ schools in each section.

Look at the D2 district finals, one team has 7 wins which means they entered postseason with 5. I understand they, being D2, cant play down a class but there is not much differance between D1 and D2 enrollments. Only 12 of 55 schools in D2 boys basketball finished the regular season with a record above .500.

I agree, expand Class A just slightly, B just slightly, then divide C1-D2 to three or two classes. Never gonna be two but maybe three is possible. Problem is very few member schools will ever vote yes on it because it will lower their chances for the state tournament.

If we have lower number of classifications it would also help schools swallow the coop/consolidation pill. Everytime a coop or consolidation is discussed so often talks stop in part because schools are so ungodly afraid of being bumped up a class. Lower the number of classes and I guarentee that more coops would happen.

Agree-- most have not been out of the state and have no idea that Nebraska has a very small enrollment gap in classes

 

[Suhisabeast]

If a move to 4 classes were to be made what would you do about the state tournament? Keep only 8 teams?
Let’s just say for the sake of argument you combine C1 and C2 into one class, just by going of this years top 8 wildcards in each class:

C1

• Ogallala (25-0), 46.3200
• Wahoo (22-3), 45.6400
• Auburn (20-3), 44.7391
• North Bend Central (22-3), 44.5200
• Adams Central (16-7), 44.0870
• Cozad (19-6), 44.0400
• Chase County (16-5), 43.9048
• Kearney Catholic (18-4), 43.8182

C2

• BRLD (23-1), 45.9583
• Bridgeport (22-2), 45.5833
• Sutton (23-2), 45.4000
• Centennial (22-2), 45.0417
• Freeman (20-4), 45.0417
• Wakefield (19-3), 44.8636
• Yutan (20-5), 44.7200
• Laurel-Concord-Coleridge (22-4), 44.2692

You’re okay with leaving 8 of these teams at home? I’m not. I think all these teams can compete with each other talent wise, but I don’t like the idea of robbing a deserving team of playing for a state championship.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

If a move to 4 classes were to be made what would you do about the state tournament? Keep only 8 teams?
Let’s just say for the sake of argument you combine C1 and C2 into one class, just by going of this years top 8 wildcards in each class:

C1

• Ogallala (25-0), 46.3200
• Wahoo (22-3), 45.6400
• Auburn (20-3), 44.7391
• North Bend Central (22-3), 44.5200
• Adams Central (16-7), 44.0870
• Cozad (19-6), 44.0400
• Chase County (16-5), 43.9048
• Kearney Catholic (18-4), 43.8182

C2

• BRLD (23-1), 45.9583
• Bridgeport (22-2), 45.5833
• Sutton (23-2), 45.4000
• Centennial (22-2), 45.0417
• Freeman (20-4), 45.0417
• Wakefield (19-3), 44.8636
• Yutan (20-5), 44.7200
• Laurel-Concord-Coleridge (22-4), 44.2692

You’re okay with leaving 8 of these teams at home? I’m not. I think all these teams can compete with each other talent wise, but I don’t like the idea of robbing a deserving team of playing for a state championship.

Those would be your teams in district finals and YES 8 would advance

 

[coach hager]

I like how people think the the easy answer is for schools to consolidate. It's not the easy for communities in the western part of the state. Who is Souix County or Crawford going to coop with? What about Arthur County? A lot of these towns are anywhere from 25 to 50 miles apart out west.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I like how people think the the easy answer is for schools to consolidate. It's not the easy for communities in the western part of the state. Who is Souix County or Crawford going to coop with? What about Arthur County? A lot of these towns are anywhere from 25 to 50 miles apart out west.

Good point

 

[nenebskers]

I like how people think the the easy answer is for schools to consolidate. It's not the easy for communities in the western part of the state. Who is Souix County or Crawford going to coop with? What about Arthur County? A lot of these towns are anywhere from 25 to 50 miles apart out west.

Agreed, in some cases it doesnt make sense and never will. In many others it does but schools wait to the last minute and die a slow death.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I like how people think the the easy answer is for schools to consolidate. It's not the easy for communities in the western part of the state. Who is Souix County or Crawford going to coop with? What about Arthur County? A lot of these towns are anywhere from 25 to 50 miles apart out west.

True but their are plenty of schools east of Kearney that could be consolidated by now.

Shelton-Gibbon (6.5 miles away)
Elba-St. Paul (12 miles away)
St. Edward-Boone Central (12 miles)
Humphrey St. Francis and Lindsay Holy Family (11 miles)
Leigh and Clarkson (8 miles)
Heartland and Hampton (11 miles)
High Plains and Osceola (20 miles)
Plainview and Osmond (10 miles)
Bloomfield and Wausa (14 miles)
Crofton and Wynot (18 miles)
Wakefield and Allen (11 miles)
Scribner-Snyder and Logan View (7 miles)
Cedar Bluffs and Mead (18 miles)
Or Yutan and Mead (6 miles)

And a few Central western Nebraska schools could do this as well.
Mitchell and Morrill (7 miles)
Brady and Maxwell (9 miles)
Elwood and Eustis-Farnam (12 miles)
Bertrand and Loomis (8 miles)
Elm Creek and Overton (8 miles)

 

[northeastNebraska]

13 out of the 56 teams in Class D2 have winning records. Something has to change.

 

[hailvictors2]

True but their are plenty of schools east of Kearney that could be consolidated by now.

Shelton-Gibbon (6.5 miles away)
Elba-St. Paul (12 miles away)
St. Edward-Boone Central (12 miles)
Humphrey St. Francis and Lindsay Holy Family (11 miles)
Leigh and Clarkson (8 miles)
Heartland and Hampton (11 miles)
High Plains and Osceola (20 miles)
Plainview and Osmond (10 miles)
Bloomfield and Wausa (14 miles)
Crofton and Wynot (18 miles)
Wakefield and Allen (11 miles)
Scribner-Snyder and Logan View (7 miles)
Cedar Bluffs and Mead (18 miles)
Or Yutan and Mead (6 miles)

And a few Central western Nebraska schools could do this as well.
Mitchell and Morrill (7 miles)
Brady and Maxwell (9 miles)
Elwood and Eustis-Farnam (12 miles)
Bertrand and Loomis (8 miles)
Elm Creek and Overton (8 miles)

Keep in mind that consolidation needs to benefit both schools. Several of the examples you listed don’t benefit the larger school. In several cases the combination would move the larger school up a class. St Paul, for instance, is C2 in football. If they take in Elba they become C1. I'm not saying St Paul couldn't compete in C1, but consider this. They were 7-2 this year. One of their losses was to Central City (C1), the other was to Norfolk Catholic....a team that is usually C1. They lost a 3rd time in the playoffs to.....Norfolk Catholic. One of their wins was against Oneill, a team that went 0-9 in C1. They won that game by 7 points. My point in all of this is that if St Paul takes in Elba they don't get much except they have to move up a class in most sports. That is true for several of the examples you provided.

Something else to consider is that consolidation should be a last resort. It should only be considered if you can't survive on your own. Both Loomis and Bertrand are fine. No reason to consolidate. Elm Creek and Overton are fine....no reason to consolidate. Again, the list of teams that are fine could go on and on.