Basketball Classifications in basketball and school consolidations

[highschoolfootballnut]

But what about 30-45 kids per class? Student to teacher ratio it probably still 16:1. Which is fine.

Thats the kicker point, all educational studies show the optimal size of student to teacher ratio is 17 students to a class , this is exactly what a small school offers, but we dont make decisions in education based on what is best for education, instead education decision are mainly decided on what is cheapest. America revolutionized education 70 or so years ago, unfortunately it has not changes much since. The last two years of high school should be completely in a junior college setting or trade school if 4 year is not your path. A few school have something similar but very few and your local 2 year school could be resource for this, to bus kids to and start their careers. We were the first nation to allow every student the opportunity to get a high school diploma and we are still doing this but so is every country now and they have moved on from it and do last two years of advanced degree or trade school. Using you local two college and your high school funding is already their for use, just takes a leader to organize and see the future that those leaders did some 70+ years ago. The reason we dont do this and America is falling behind is because college especially 4 year universities has become a trillion dollar business of bankrupting our youth

 

[Llama57]

I see your point but with in that point you are saying the person with the most money should get to decide Not sure thats a very good idea either

Not at all. Just tired of the "people who live in the district know best" argument.
As far as towns dying. Any town less than 500 people that is more than 60 miles away from a city of 50k is dying. Prove me wrong please.

 

[hailvictors2]

Not at all. Just tired of the "people who live in the district know best" argument.
As far as towns dying. Any town less than 500 people that is more than 60 miles away from a city of 50k is dying. Prove me wrong please.

Firm disagree with this. There are 4 cities in Nebraska over 50,000 people. There are a lot of "small" towns that aren't near Omaha/Bellevue, Lincoln, or Grand Island that are not dying.

Mullen comes to mind. Top ten golf course in the country. If this is "dying", send me to heaven now.

Ansley, McCool Junction, Leigh, Santee, Loomis, Inglewood, Lakeview, Pleasanton, Brainard, Chambers, Lindsay, Clatonia, Sumner, Wynot, Thedford, Farnam...all of those places are under 500 people (and I'd guess 60+ miles from Omaha, Lincoln, or GI) and had an increase in population from last year to this year. That's the opposite of dying.

 

[mikeneujahr]

Not at all. Just tired of the "people who live in the district know best" argument.
As far as towns dying. Any town less than 500 people that is more than 60 miles away from a city of 50k is dying. Prove me wrong please.

Regardless of the size, if the people in the district don’t know best who does? I don’t buy into let the state decide. They have done nothing to help the regular guy for 30 years.

 

[Llama57]

Firm disagree with this. There are 4 cities in Nebraska over 50,000 people. There are a lot of "small" towns that aren't near Omaha/Bellevue, Lincoln, or Grand Island that are not dying.

Mullen comes to mind. Top ten golf course in the country. If this is "dying", send me to heaven now.

Ansley, McCool Junction, Leigh, Santee, Loomis, Inglewood, Lakeview, Pleasanton, Brainard, Chambers, Lindsay, Clatonia, Sumner, Wynot, Thedford, Farnam...all of those places are under 500 people (and I'd guess 60+ miles from Omaha, Lincoln, or GI) and had an increase in population from last year to this year. That's the opposite of dying.

Inglewood & Lakeview ..funny
I'm from 1 of the other districts on that list. About 10% of the students open enroll to the C1 school 20 miles away for more/better opportunities.

 

[abaxa5]

I love small town schools as well, I went to one, but these schools are going to continue to shrink. Some need to be proactive. The teaching shortage isn’t going to help matters either.

Lewiston may have been a bad example on my part due to their location and proximity to other schools, but there are plenty others that are closer that could consolidate and still be a small school.

Also, never been to Lewiston in my life but it’s very small now. What’s in the town now that won’t be there if the school is gone? Because it doesn’t seem like there is much there now.

I see your point with how small Lewiston is they should close because of it. I did some research and the town has never had more than 200 people in it. It's amazing they've been able to stay up as long as they have so that's what may be keeping it alive. "We've done it for this long so I don't see why we can't keep going" type of mentality. Someone also donated $1.5 million to the school to put in a new track last year so probably don't want that to go to waste either.

 

[DonlugoQ]

I see your point with how small Lewiston is they should close because of it. I did some research and the town has never had more than 200 people in it. It's amazing they've been able to stay up as long as they have so that's what may be keeping it alive. "We've done it for this long so I don't see why we can't keep going" type of mentality. Someone also donated $1.5 million to the school to put in a new track last year so probably don't want that to go to waste either.

Does Lewiston school include more than one community?

 

[northeastNebraska]

Firm disagree with this. There are 4 cities in Nebraska over 50,000 people. There are a lot of "small" towns that aren't near Omaha/Bellevue, Lincoln, or Grand Island that are not dying.

Mullen comes to mind. Top ten golf course in the country. If this is "dying", send me to heaven now.

Ansley, McCool Junction, Leigh, Santee, Loomis, Inglewood, Lakeview, Pleasanton, Brainard, Chambers, Lindsay, Clatonia, Sumner, Wynot, Thedford, Farnam...all of those places are under 500 people (and I'd guess 60+ miles from Omaha, Lincoln, or GI) and had an increase in population from last year to this year. That's the opposite of dying.

Mullen is an outlier due to their location. Not asking schools west and north of Broken Bow to merge. They don’t have options.

But why can’t Loomis and Bertrand come together? Keep the elementary in town and high school in another. Or build something in the middle. They are 8 miles from each other. That wouldn’t kill either town. It would help with staffing, efficiency’s and could attract more enrollment from Holdrege or Souther Valley.

Some people act like having 40 kids per grade is a bad thing. It’s not. Bertrand and Loomis high school numbers..

9th: 32 (both have 16)
10: 43 (21 at Bertrand, 22 at Loomis)
11: 37 (15 at Bertrand, 22 at Loomis)
12: 38 (20 at Bertrand, 18 at Loomis)

 

[hailvictors2]

Mullen is an outlier due to their location. Not asking schools west and north of Broken Bow to merge. They don’t have options.

But why can’t Loomis and Bertrand come together? Keep the elementary in town and high school in another. Or build something in the middle. They are 8 miles from each other. That wouldn’t kill either town. It would help with staffing, efficiency’s and could attract more enrollment from Holdrege or Souther Valley.

Some people act like having 40 kids per grade is a bad thing. It’s not. Bertrand and Loomis high school numbers..

9th: 32 (both have 16)
10: 43 (21 at Bertrand, 22 at Loomis)
11: 37 (15 at Bertrand, 22 at Loomis)
12: 38 (20 at Bertrand, 18 at Loomis)

There isn't a reason they "can't" come together. But why would they want to? What is in it for them? What do they gain? Loomis and Bertrand school systems are both doing fine on their own. If they wanted to come together they would have by now. They used to coop in some sports, wresting and XC i think. Local opponents referred to them as Bermis.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Mullen is an outlier due to their location. Not asking schools west and north of Broken Bow to merge. They don’t have options.

But why can’t Loomis and Bertrand come together? Keep the elementary in town and high school in another. Or build something in the middle. They are 8 miles from each other. That wouldn’t kill either town. It would help with staffing, efficiency’s and could attract more enrollment from Holdrege or Souther Valley.

Some people act like having 40 kids per grade is a bad thing. It’s not. Bertrand and Loomis high school numbers..

9th: 32 (both have 16)
10: 43 (21 at Bertrand, 22 at Loomis)
11: 37 (15 at Bertrand, 22 at Loomis)
12: 38 (20 at Bertrand, 18 at Loomis)

You get your wish in the next 10 years, we will see big government take over schools and votes will not matter They are not going to raise teacher pay, even though a first year teacher now makes $6 bucks more an hour than a Mcdonalds worker but requires a 4 year degree to be a teacher(this is the number one reason we have a teacher shortage). SO since they will do little to raise pay they will take over local control and you may even see vouchers for any school BIG government is what you want Well it is what you will get JUST remember in 10 years from now you asked for it

 

[abaxa5]

Does Lewiston school include more than one community?

District map shows Crab Orchard, Virginia, Burchard, and maybe Barneston all included. Doesn't necessarily mean they have kids from there or they go there though.

 

[northeastNebraska]

You get your wish in the next 10 years, we will see big government take over schools and votes will not matter They are not going to raise teacher pay, even though a first year teacher now makes $6 bucks more an hour than a Mcdonalds worker but requires a 4 year degree to be a teacher(this is the number one reason we have a teacher shortage). SO since they will do little to raise pay they will take over local control and you may even see vouchers for any school BIG government is what you want Well it is what you will get JUST remember in 10 years from now you asked for it

Okay if that is what you want to believe, that is fine.

Again, we can agree to disagree, just trying to start a logical conversation. Because the teaching shortage is going to continue to cause a problem in this state. Some of that can be fixed by consolidation.

 

[hailvictors2]

Okay if that is what you want to believe, that is fine.

Again, we can agree to disagree, just trying to start a logical conversation. Because the teaching shortage is going to continue to cause a problem in this state. Some of that can be fixed by consolidation.

I disagree with this logic. The teaching shortage is real, for sure...but the answer is not to decrease the demand for teachers (consolidation) because that doesn't address the demand for education. The same number of kids still need to be educated. Imagine applying that logic to other professions. We don't have enough Drs or surgeons so we decrease the amount of hospitals and think by doing that we can now more effectively serve the same number of people that need care? No, all that does is make them drive further to get the care they need.
There is a sub shortage right now. The state's answer is to make it easier to become a sub. That doesn't solve anything. All it does is put a warm body in the room. The answer is for local school districts to pay subs more-increase the desire to sub. Same applies to teaching. Want more teachers, compensate them better.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I disagree with this logic. The teaching shortage is real, for sure...but the answer is not to decrease the demand for teachers (consolidation) because that doesn't address the demand for education. The same number of kids still need to be educated. Imagine applying that logic to other professions. We don't have enough Drs or surgeons so we decrease the amount of hospitals and think by doing that we can now more effectively serve the same number of people that need care? No, all that does is make them drive further to get the care they need.
There is a sub shortage right now. The state's answer is to make it easier to become a sub. That doesn't solve anything. All it does is put a warm body in the room. The answer is for local school districts to pay subs more-increase the desire to sub. Same applies to teaching. Want more teachers, compensate them better.

That is fine, I understand your point, while we see differently I respect your opinion. I am totally on your boat when it comes to teachers need better compensation, that needs to be addressed.

 

[hailvictors2]

Does Lewiston school include more than one community?

From "Pages of History", which only runs through 1994

"The debt-free Lewiston consolidated district now has students from Pawnee, Gage, and Johnson counties. Consolidation has expanded the district to 156 sections of land including parts or all the former school districts of Crab Orchard, Virginia, Liberty, Barneston, Burchard, Steinauer, and Vesta."

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Okay if that is what you want to believe, that is fine.

Again, we can agree to disagree, just trying to start a logical conversation. Because the teaching shortage is going to continue to cause a problem in this state. Some of that can be fixed by consolidation.

It will be, the state will take away local control and distribute the major portion of the funding and use property tax relief, fair to all schools and teacher Shortage as the reason why. BUT in reality they just want to take away local control and control the money. SO now your land taxes all across the state will be decided by Omaha and Lincoln voters when it comes to education.

 

[Llama57]

It will be, the state will take away local control and distribute the major portion of the funding and use property tax relief, fair to all schools and teacher Shortage as the reason why. BUT in reality they just want to take away local control and control the money. SO now your land taxes all across the state will be decided by Omaha and Lincoln voters when it comes to education.

Sir, this is a Wendys

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Sir, this is a Wendys

lol

 

[mgbreis]

Does Lewiston school include more than one community?

They send a bus to Beatrice every day to pick up kids that open enroll because they don't want to go to big, scary Beatrice.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

A couple of reasons why I'd support fewer classes.

1. Classes are realitively small in terms of numbers of teams.
2. Within each class, especially the smaller classes, the enrollment gap is minimal compared to other states. Iowa for example has 164 (3 year boy and girl combined enrollment) and under all in it's lowest class.
3. The talent level between the smaller classes is not that great. Look at the scores any night and you see D2s beating D1s, D1s beating C2s, C2s beating C1s, D2s beating C2s, etc. IMO many years the state champ in D2 could beat the D1, or the D1 the C2, etc... Bottom line, if a team is good they are good and jumping up a class is not a huge difference.
4. Less classes would help with PowerPoints accuracy.
5. Less classes would help alleviate some fears of schools facing cooping and/or consolidating. Many in this state are so afraid to coop or consolidate because of the fear of jumping up a class or two.
6. Because of #4 and #5, scheduling locally would become easier.

Good post.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

153 teams in one class and 33 in another is crazy to me. Why should one team have to be better than 152 others to win a state title, but another only has to be better than 32. Hard pass on that.

I understand the logic you are applying here.

I think that the idea comes down to school size more than equal schools in each class. Two thoughts here.

Class A is smaller because as enrollment dwindles it becomes impossible for schools with enrollment number 500 less than other Class A schools. A is small because it it isn't kept small then half the field would need to just give up on the idea of ever winning or making a State Title.

Class D is going to have way more schools, but those schools are very close in enrollment numbers. There are more of them, but they are basically all the same size. Class D isn't where the argument in this system is. The argument is in Class B. Class B would have schools with 1/3 of the enrollment of the largest B school.

As someone has suggested, increase the size of the State Tournament field like has been done in Football. There are more teams, but more teams make the tournament.

 

[TC53]

In 1950 there were 273 schools in Class D. (In 1951 there were 289)
In 1960 there were 240 schools in Class D.
In 1970 there were 149 teams in Class D.
In 1983 (the last year of four-class basketball) there were 140 teams in Class D.

I have no record of teams getting discouraged and not wanting to play anymore. Instead, they knew to value other things than just getting to state. County championships. Conference championships. District championships were a big deal. Hell, making the final in those tournaments was a big deal. To some teams making the semifinal was a huge year to celebrate. One reason we have to have too many classes that are too small is that we think state or bust.

 

[TC53]

Local control is not Nebraska's advantage. Many states have as much or more local control than we do. Nebraska has an advantage in the system because it has few concentrations of poverty. Concentrations of poverty don't have a lot of local control because they have no money to control. Concentrations of poverty are where American schools struggle.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Local control is not Nebraska's advantage. Many states have as much or more local control than we do. Nebraska has an advantage in the system because it has few concentrations of poverty. Concentrations of poverty don't have a lot of local control because they have no money to control. Concentrations of poverty are where American schools struggle.

I agree with your poverty point, but not so on local control. neither Iowa, Missouri, Illinois are states I know for sure have very little local control, just to name a few near us