Seeing a lot of sports with low numbers, many say kids are not interested in sports, but wondering if coaching has anything to do with it? Kids are more willing to do other things or work rather than deal with a coach they don’t connect with or see other kids getting supported. Sports are supposed to be fun and competitive but I see more and more kids not having the fun part, more stress than fun. Just a few thoughts, want to see what others think. Coaches preach team but sometimes don’t see what their decisions and coaching style is doing the the players. Kids are more willing to walk away now and that is not a good trend.
Low Numbers and Coaching
- Thread starter Big Red Thoughts
- Start date
Coaching most definitely plays a part in it... to a point.
Some kids just don't have any interest in it by the time they get to high school.
Some kids love sports, but can't handle the coach's "style" of coaching. I've known many kids that hated their coaches, but still played because they love the game, but also many that lost their love of a sport due to a coach.
Winning programs generally draw more kids, along with programs that have elementary sports to develop fundamentals and an understanding of the game, but a coach's ability to recruit the players at their school to play sports is still important.
I would also say that video games and parenting plays a huge part in it. Many parents force their kids to play sports (mostly a good thing imo). Many parents don't take the time to engage in sports with their kids as they grow up, therefore some kids grow up having never played sports in their backyards, but video games also come into play in this lack of backyard playing and interest in sports.
Some kids just don't have any interest in it by the time they get to high school.
Some kids love sports, but can't handle the coach's "style" of coaching. I've known many kids that hated their coaches, but still played because they love the game, but also many that lost their love of a sport due to a coach.
Winning programs generally draw more kids, along with programs that have elementary sports to develop fundamentals and an understanding of the game, but a coach's ability to recruit the players at their school to play sports is still important.
I would also say that video games and parenting plays a huge part in it. Many parents force their kids to play sports (mostly a good thing imo). Many parents don't take the time to engage in sports with their kids as they grow up, therefore some kids grow up having never played sports in their backyards, but video games also come into play in this lack of backyard playing and interest in sports.
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I wonder how many kids have to quit before an administration really looks at the culture of the program instead of kids having other interests or simply not wanting to play
We are in an era of instant gratification. Many kids today will give up or show disinterest when they aren’t the best or if they don’t see quick improvements. Because of “the coach” is a lot more rare than society has enabled us to believe. The reality is that kids have to constantly be pampered to feel like they belong. Look at college recruiting. Whoever can make the kid feel the most special through social media graphics and other side shows are usually the front runners to land a recruit. If you were to ask a kid in the 90s why they play you wouldn’t get many of the same responses as you would presenting the same question to a kid today. There are kids who literally play because of how they look in cool shoes and fancy apparel. 20-30 years ago you couldn’t find a single high school kid who cared about any of that. Back in the day, if a player got yelled at or held accountable by a coach, then they’d refuse to go home and report it to their parents cause the parents would’ve sided with the coach. Now, if a coach looks at a player the wrong way it results in an immediate parent meeting and an uproar to get rid of the coach. People like to say “kids haven’t changed, adults have.” That cannot be further from the truth. A kid in 1900 didn’t have much different of a childhood as a kid from 1980. In the last 20 years, technology has completely changed and has impacted kids more so than the previous 500 years. Drive around your community and look for kids on bikes, playing outside, pickup baseball games, etc. It’s rare. Unfortunately, these changes have made a negative impact on participation in high school sports. It isn’t just your community, it’s everywhere. In long, no, coaches are not the problem for low participation.
Give me all of this. Well said
I agree with most of that. Kids have changed. Growing up in different times definitely changes the way they view life.
But... Some coaches haven't changed...
"Great coaches" at winning programs are still calling great kids worthless, heartless, uncaring, etc and are berating them during practice and games.
They love having favorites and using their power to keep juniors and seniors from playing in games and ruining their high school sports careers and refuse to give the player or parent any reason why whatsoever.
Maybe they need to change their ways and not personally put kids down to "motivate" them after games.
Kids have changed, but sometimes it is the coach.
I agree.
But, what is often misunderstood is that these coaches are “bad.” Most coaches over the age of 35-40ish grew up in a time where many of them were motivated by tough love when they were players. If you look at the coaches in our state from A-D2 in all sports it is littered with former Nebraska high school athletes who were elite players for our state during their playing days. What they know is from what they experienced when they were a high school athlete themselves and what motivated them when the shoe was on the other foot. The problem is that they are coaching players in the wrong era. Coaching todays high school athlete and the methods in coaching them needs to be evaluated extensively. The problem doesn’t lie within the coach. The problem is that we’ve had a drastic change in adolescence social behaviors and the change in coaching styles hasn’t been able to stay on the same steep slope with the sudden changes. It may take a generation of coaches before the two align.
I've only been coaching for about a decade but these are my experiences so far:
Work ethic has dropped severely overall. I remember hearing stories about the summer weight room in Howells... If you didn't show up at least a half hour before weights you're looking at having to park a couple blocks away---I've tried every drastic measure to try to get kids to show up for weights in the summer, it's like pulling teeth just to get them there half the days. And there's no legit reason why they miss weights. Kids are trying to get out of stuff all the time instead of just doing what they need to do. They miss weights, camps, practices, etc and lack accountability.
Piggybacking on that: kids want instant playing time regardless of what they put in. I've had a lot of kids not go out their freshman and/or sophomore year because they didn't want to sit the bench/sideline. By the time they did come out they're already 1-2 years behind and expect to be a starter right away. This is the case for high school and college athletes. If they don't get to play right away, instead of staying and developing in that program, they quit or transfer.
Parents: parents absolutely are ruining their own child's experience. They might disagree with the coaching, the scheme, the playing time, etc. I've heard these conversations between player-parent. And I've had the parents come directly to me a few times. I've always had a rule that if a parent wants to talk to the coaches, their child needs to be present as well. That tends to clear up a lot of things or even dismiss it all together. But you can only imagine the actual conversations being had in the home.
Smaller enrollment numbers but more options/activities: this only applies really to class D schools I'd imagine. Small schools are shrinking but keeping the same amount of activities or even adding more. You take a school that has a 9-12 boy enrollment or less than 20 and try to put together a football team. Very rarely are you getting 100% participation anymore, now add in the fact that the school also has a strong cross country program. Good luck getting ten kids to go out for football. That is the case for every season. Basketball/wrestling, track/golf. When I was in high school some of our best athletes actually played golf instead of doing track but that's fine they won state a couple times can't fault them for that. Add in other activities and time commitments that go with them: FFA, FBLA, FCCLA, one act, speech, band, art, dance, cheerleading, etc. Some of those might only apply to females but you get the picture.
1-2 sport athletes: I've seen a significant rise in 1 or 2 sport athletes with a big drop in 3 sport athletes. For whatever reason I don't know the answer... Fear of injury and missing the other season, lack of ability for other sports, I don't know. Coincidentally during that time I've also seen a rise in club/AAU sports. Not sure if there's a correlation there or not. Boys miss spring sports because they did club basketball. Girls don't do basketball because they have club tryouts for volleyball in December and then start playing in January... Even if they didn't make the school's varsity volleyball team.
Someone mentioned technology: I 100% agree that is a factor. You see less and less bikes in the streets/driveways, less time spent at the court in the park, less time just playing catch with a sibling in the yard, etc... I don't think it's because of video games but due to social interaction. When I was a kid that was my social interaction. Kids don't need to do that now because they have a device in their hand that lets them interact with their friends whenever they want.
This got lengthy my apologies for that but just from my young coaching experience so far these are things I've noticed. Granted I've only coached class D besides football for a few years in C1.
Work ethic has dropped severely overall. I remember hearing stories about the summer weight room in Howells... If you didn't show up at least a half hour before weights you're looking at having to park a couple blocks away---I've tried every drastic measure to try to get kids to show up for weights in the summer, it's like pulling teeth just to get them there half the days. And there's no legit reason why they miss weights. Kids are trying to get out of stuff all the time instead of just doing what they need to do. They miss weights, camps, practices, etc and lack accountability.
Piggybacking on that: kids want instant playing time regardless of what they put in. I've had a lot of kids not go out their freshman and/or sophomore year because they didn't want to sit the bench/sideline. By the time they did come out they're already 1-2 years behind and expect to be a starter right away. This is the case for high school and college athletes. If they don't get to play right away, instead of staying and developing in that program, they quit or transfer.
Parents: parents absolutely are ruining their own child's experience. They might disagree with the coaching, the scheme, the playing time, etc. I've heard these conversations between player-parent. And I've had the parents come directly to me a few times. I've always had a rule that if a parent wants to talk to the coaches, their child needs to be present as well. That tends to clear up a lot of things or even dismiss it all together. But you can only imagine the actual conversations being had in the home.
Smaller enrollment numbers but more options/activities: this only applies really to class D schools I'd imagine. Small schools are shrinking but keeping the same amount of activities or even adding more. You take a school that has a 9-12 boy enrollment or less than 20 and try to put together a football team. Very rarely are you getting 100% participation anymore, now add in the fact that the school also has a strong cross country program. Good luck getting ten kids to go out for football. That is the case for every season. Basketball/wrestling, track/golf. When I was in high school some of our best athletes actually played golf instead of doing track but that's fine they won state a couple times can't fault them for that. Add in other activities and time commitments that go with them: FFA, FBLA, FCCLA, one act, speech, band, art, dance, cheerleading, etc. Some of those might only apply to females but you get the picture.
1-2 sport athletes: I've seen a significant rise in 1 or 2 sport athletes with a big drop in 3 sport athletes. For whatever reason I don't know the answer... Fear of injury and missing the other season, lack of ability for other sports, I don't know. Coincidentally during that time I've also seen a rise in club/AAU sports. Not sure if there's a correlation there or not. Boys miss spring sports because they did club basketball. Girls don't do basketball because they have club tryouts for volleyball in December and then start playing in January... Even if they didn't make the school's varsity volleyball team.
Someone mentioned technology: I 100% agree that is a factor. You see less and less bikes in the streets/driveways, less time spent at the court in the park, less time just playing catch with a sibling in the yard, etc... I don't think it's because of video games but due to social interaction. When I was a kid that was my social interaction. Kids don't need to do that now because they have a device in their hand that lets them interact with their friends whenever they want.
This got lengthy my apologies for that but just from my young coaching experience so far these are things I've noticed. Granted I've only coached class D besides football for a few years in C1.
The Coach is the excuse. There is another reason they aren't playing.
100% agree with all of this. Honestly covers about everything. I've been seeing some "don't want to get hurt for ______________(sport)" as well. Pretty much an excuse for being soft and not wanting to work. Blows my mind when kids hang their buddies out to dry with a selfish decision like this. Life would not have been great for someone that did this 20-30 years ago at our school. It would have been pretty lonely. Parents that know their kid is needed on the team and still let them make this decision baffle me as well. It all ties together.
My opinion for what it’s worth.. don’t ask my wife because it’s not much
It’s long overdue that the state forces consolidations not because of sports but for the kids!!! More academic, athletic and extra curricular opportunities for all the kids. With teachers and coaches becoming harder to find and numbers being low in rural areas we need to consider it soon.
Parents are a nightmare to deal with nowadays.
It’s long overdue that the state forces consolidations not because of sports but for the kids!!! More academic, athletic and extra curricular opportunities for all the kids. With teachers and coaches becoming harder to find and numbers being low in rural areas we need to consider it soon.
Parents are a nightmare to deal with nowadays.
Do you think consolidations should keep the separate schools in the consolidating towns or should have to build a school in the country similar to what summerland or cross county(I think) have done?
Pretty firmly against the state forcing anything. The NDE screws up just about everything it touches. Lets go ahead and NOT let them make decisions about whether schools should consolidate. I'll trust the folks that reside in those towns and elect school board members to make those decisions.
I would definitely recommend you involve local community leaders. Unfortunately most people are blinded by what’s in there best interest at the present time and don’t look far enough in the future
This...the decision to consolidate effects everything from the school and the kids to the businesses in town. No government entity should every have a say in this. This is why school boards are elected and they hire administrators. In some cases, they don't make the right decision for their kids or their patrons, but they should never have this forced upon them by anyone from the state. Until the way this state funds itself changes this is a hill i will die on. Even then at this point the less governing the better. As for building a new school. Man that is a big undertaking to bite off, but if you think you have the numbers to sustain it for several decades and can pass the bond I guess go for it. Lets face it, many schools that are facing these decisions have pretty run down facilities anyway. Its a matter of can you remodel and bandaid things or is it past the point of rescue?
Every situation is different, but I like the idea of building a central location in the country off a major highway. What Summerland did was very proactive and it will set up education in that area for a positive future for years to come. Cross County did the same thing, just wish they could have brought in High Plains or Osceola with them. Osmond, Plainview, and Randolph need to think about something similar. Build a K-12 right on Highway 20.
I believe data and building issues need to put into perspective. If a schools enrollment has decreased by a certain percentage over a set amount of years, something needs to happen from the state.
Whether it's just a rule that if a schools enrollment decreases by 10% in a five year span, that school must hire a firm to decide why this is happening and what can help prevent the loss of kids. If enrollment isn't increasing within the next two years, another check must be put in place with school to open discussions with a neighboring school about a merger. Something like that.
Enrollment trends are important to gauge the health of a district. Here is an example of this. Below are Nebraska Dept of Education enrollment numbers from 01-02, 11-12, and 21-22 for a school that has four K-12 public schools within it's 20 mile radius. Does the current enrollment justify keeping a school when they are losing 75+ kids to option enrollment to those neighboring schools?
2001-2002 enrollment: Kindergarten (26), 1st grade (24), 2nd grade (25), 3rd grade (21), 4th grade (23), 5th grade (26), 6th grade (26), 7th grade (19), 8th grade (30), 9th grade (24), 10th grade (26), 11th grade (20), 12 grade (19).
Total K-12 enrollment 314
2011-2012 enrollment: Kindergarten (17), 1st grade (13), 2nd grade (14), 3rd grade (16), 4th grade (17), 5th grade (13), 6th grade (17), 7th grade (16), 8th grade (16), 9th grade (23), 10th grade (20), 11th grade (14), 12th grade (18).
Total K-12 enrollment 227
2021-2022 enrollment: Kindergarten (19), 1st grade (15), 2nd grade (18), 3rd grade (15), 4th grade (5)!!!, 5th grade (14), 6th grade (13), 7th grade (10), 8th grade (14), 9th grade (11), 10th grade (15), 11th grade (8 ), 12th grade (15).
Total K-12 enrollment 193
Total enrollments YOY since 2011-2012
2011-2012: 227
2012-2013: 239
2013-2014: 228
2014-2015: 204
2015-2016: 208
2016-2017: 216
2017-2018: 205
2018-2019: 204
2019-2020: 206
2020-2021: 193
2021-2022: 193
Is putting a band aid on a compound fracture going to fix the problem? No. Two class D schools 9 miles from each other don't need to be separate. Pool resources, build a new building and be a C2 school for a few years. Maybe if they merge they could attract other kids from outside the district to come in.
As someone who grew up in a town of 900, it sucks to say, but some towns make it, some don't. It's been happening across the US forever.
Pooling your resources sometimes means bending over the property owners (Ag) in your district. In most cases the people that live in their 60-80K house don't have a problem voting yes for a school bond. The tax burden falls on ag producers. Each situation is different. You are used to towns that can see each other down the highway. I'm more used to 3 hour bus rides. What works in eastern Ne isn't reality out west. Look at Sandhills/Thedford. The two schools are 30 minutes apart, but a kid from west of Brownlee that has to go to Dunning for practice is looking at 1.5 hour drive home afterwards. This will happen more and more as we go along but its a tough deal out here.
Totally agree, each situation is different. You get north and west of Kearney and it’s a different ball game. I lived in NP for two years, traveled to Mullen, ST, Merna, Hayes Center, etc. can’t do it out that way.
But on the east side and part of central Nebraska, something needs to change.
Twin river is in the process of trying to pass a 49 million dollar bond that gets voted on in the middle of September. Will be interesting to see how that goes.
Unfortunately bad/lazy parenting has a far bigger impact on this than either bad coaching or "lack of interest"
This part doesn’t get talked about enough. It sucks but it has a huge impact on success.
I coached for over 30 years. I never saw a lot of difference over the years. Every year I was begging kids to play football. I did it at every school I went to. Here would be my advice to young coaches...
1. As far as the summer time weight room... my approach was always the same. I would tell players, "this is your team, not mine. I'm here to help you get to where you want to go, but if you really want to win you need to get your teammates to summer workouts". And even then, your dedicated players get tired of the lazy ones. It's the being together as a team early in the morning working towards that one goal, that's what is awesome to see. Another thing I always told players..."you motivate me as much as much as I could ever motivate you when I watch you work hard!"
2. Go to the hallway and recruit athletic sissy's. They might just make a play that wins a game for you.
3. Drop the Ego, it's not about you, it's about them! Being a hard ass all the time doesn't make you a good coach, just makes you a hard ass! Knowing when to be a hard ass is the key. I was only a hard ass when it came to effort, never because of a mistake. Nobody out on your field is trying to make a mistake. Not even you as a coach, and believe me I made plenty!
4. Promote your sport! It is tough because they don't get to be in the air conditioned gym practicing like basketball and volleyball. It can be brutal out there some days.
5. No Gassers!!! Do all your "conditioning" through your drills. Make "conditioning" meaningful to them!
6. Most importantly keep them safe. Take as many water breaks as your players need in the dog days of summer. The last thing you want is for a player to go down tragically. Your career and his life isn't worth it. It's just a game! Enjoy the ones who do come out to play for you and don't worry about the ones who don't. It's so much fun to be around those young men who want to play the sport you love!
A successful year is different for everyone, have a successful year! Good Luck!
1. As far as the summer time weight room... my approach was always the same. I would tell players, "this is your team, not mine. I'm here to help you get to where you want to go, but if you really want to win you need to get your teammates to summer workouts". And even then, your dedicated players get tired of the lazy ones. It's the being together as a team early in the morning working towards that one goal, that's what is awesome to see. Another thing I always told players..."you motivate me as much as much as I could ever motivate you when I watch you work hard!"
2. Go to the hallway and recruit athletic sissy's. They might just make a play that wins a game for you.
3. Drop the Ego, it's not about you, it's about them! Being a hard ass all the time doesn't make you a good coach, just makes you a hard ass! Knowing when to be a hard ass is the key. I was only a hard ass when it came to effort, never because of a mistake. Nobody out on your field is trying to make a mistake. Not even you as a coach, and believe me I made plenty!
4. Promote your sport! It is tough because they don't get to be in the air conditioned gym practicing like basketball and volleyball. It can be brutal out there some days.
5. No Gassers!!! Do all your "conditioning" through your drills. Make "conditioning" meaningful to them!
6. Most importantly keep them safe. Take as many water breaks as your players need in the dog days of summer. The last thing you want is for a player to go down tragically. Your career and his life isn't worth it. It's just a game! Enjoy the ones who do come out to play for you and don't worry about the ones who don't. It's so much fun to be around those young men who want to play the sport you love!
A successful year is different for everyone, have a successful year! Good Luck!