So this is happening
- Thread starter MacMan92
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I also saw that Holy Family/St. Francis co-op for one-act was approved. It might be the first step.
What is interesting regarding Play Production, Humphrey was not co-oping with LHF in 2020. All three schools were on their own.
Holy Family and St. Francis actually shared a speech coach last year. They weren’t cooped, just had the same coach.
Ya, I wouldn't have guessed a 3 way sports co-op. That would put St Francis in Class C, 11 man football, etc. Never happen.
In what universe would you combine HSF and LHF and not include Humphrey high? They have a beautiful turf field and the three schools would be able to bring their towns together for one great team with tons of tradition. Humphrey high and HSF are ACROSS THE STREET FROM EACH OTHER. I've seen it work great. It worked in Spalding between two schools, and even though some egos broke that one up after 15 years, it looks like it will return at some point real soon. Do what is best for kids, not what some egos from the 1960's and 70's need.
That is what should happen for sports at least. Again, for a lot of HSF people it’s all about their name and keeping their traditions alive. That will be hard to break. But yes I totally agree, have all three schools come together for sports, and have HSF-LHF merge to form one school district.
You are the second person I’ve heard mention Riverside and SA may come together for sports soon. Do you think this football season will be the last for the Academy?
HSF doesn't need to co-op with anybody. I believe their numbers (for what they want) are fine so why should they co-op when it's not needed for them?
Rumor for Riverside and SA is that Riverside doesn't want to carry the Academy's name along with their own. Basically if you want to play with Riverside then you have to leave the Academy and just join the public school.
Again, not sure if Riverside is being that *way* or not (they may be being perfectly reasonable & accommodating), but just a rumor I heard.
Probably would be important to note that Academy had a chance to co-op with Riverside when the initial consolidation happened. In the end, Academy caused the issue that forced them not to co-op. Academy would only co-op if the uniforms for the Riverside-Academy co-op had crosses on them, and Riverside said no.
My guess is Academy doesn't hold any chips that Riverside needs, so Academy probably can't do much demanding if they co-op.
If it is a matter of keeping the co-op in 8 man football, I can see why you wouldn't want to.
If all 3 schools went together they would probably be pretty darn competitive in C-2.
I don't know about that? I guess it depends on how "competitive" is defined. The thing is, in 8 man St Francis is far above competitive.
I am by no means claiming to be an expert here, but certainly know something about it. There is a big difference between 8 man and 11 man football.
It's funny how you say the Academy caused the issue and it wasn't Riverside (most likely it was a bit of both).
Also, I have a hard time believing the only (or even main) issue was on having a cross on uniforms or not.
No, I don't think the Academy ever did hold many, if any, chips. There's a weirdness in Spalding where the public & private schools do not seem to get along (that's between the adults, not the kids). Some are willing to work with one another while many are not. Then you throw in a whole other town (Cedar Rapids) who really couldn't care less about the Academy (why would they) and you really have the Academy put at a disadvantage in negotiations.
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With the athletes that St. Francis has and the athletes that HLHF has right now they would be very competitive. I do agree with you that there is a big difference between 11 man and 8 man.
But adding LHF is only going to help HSF with numbers. I can’t imagine HSF having more than 18 kids on their football roster this year. They probably wouldn’t even move up to Class D1 by adding LHF.
This is like saying Skutt should consolidate with Mount Michael to help their numbers.
Why would Skutt want to move to Class A when they pretty much dominate Class B on their own. Same goes for HSF, why move up a class when they're perfectly fine on their own?
This is all their doing. The HLHF coop has been in place for 8 years and has been very successful. The priest at HSF made the proposal last spring that would dissolve the HLHF coop and create a new coop between HSF and LHF. Your question is absolutely correct: “Why, when they're perfectly fine on their own?”
I get that, but using the NSAA numbers for this classification cycle, HSF-LHF would still be Class D2. 14 for LHF, 18 for HSF.
Lindsay Holy Family and Humphrey St. Francis should have merged years ago. It’s crazy two Catholic schools that small are open and are 11 miles a part. Financially, facilities, staffing it makes more sense to come together. The teaching shortage isn’t helping either.
Also using Class B to Class A is not in the same realm as moving up from D2 to D1. Sandhills-Thedford, Mullen, etc would fair just fine in D1. There doesn’t need to be two classes of 8 man football anyways.
The kids got along great as far as I know. They had some great success those last few years especially in basketball & football.
There were just certain adults / families that were paranoid about the Academy and the other side were paranoid over the public. What I mean is that people thought coaches played favorites due to which school they went to and whatnot.
I disagree on the difference between 8-1 and C-2. The roster numbers are really pretty similar in lots of cases. And, I think sometimes 11-man teams suffer by having to put three more players on the field; it opens up places to attack. Whereas, 8-man teams can have similar roster sizes and keep those three on the sideline. I think it is more common to see a strong 8-man outfit step up to 11-man and remain solid than it is to see a weak 11-man bunch drop to 8 and suddenly be competitive.
I've been gone from the small C/big D sidelines for a decade, though, so maybe that has changed?
I've been gone from the small C/big D sidelines for a decade, though, so maybe that has changed?
Whether they would fair just fine in another class up doesn't matter. HSF is doing good just on their own (whether that's having the financials to stay open, have enough staff, doing well in extra-curricular activities, etc) & they want to keep their own identity. Until things get difficult for them it makes sense if they want to stay on their own.
You eliminate the amount of 8-man schools like you want to then you eliminate that number of kids getting a chance to actually play. I would much rather play for a losing 8-man team then never get the chance to play for a winning 11-man team.
When I was in HS we too jumped from a small C2 to a larger D1. We were terrible my senior year playing 8-man, but we would have been especially bad playing 11-man.
There are certainly differences on the field, but the differences I refer to are much different.
It is very hard to be competitive in 11 man football if you do not have a JV team playing a complete JV schedule. If you go from being a large enrollment team in 8 man to a small enrollment team in 11 man, it is really hard to play a complete JV Schedule. Player development is challenging without those JV games.
And as you have said, now that small enrollment 11 man team has to figure out which 3 players they are going to put out there...which 3 "places to attack" guys are the less of the evils? Roster size?? Yes, when you have a large roster size in relation to your competitors it is an advantage. IT IS NOT THE BE ALL END ALL. ROSTER SIZE IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT A SINGULAR MEANS TO SUCCESS. IT IS AN ADVANTAGE. ( I put this here to save all of the outlier examples from flowing in. I get it, you CAN have a small roster and succeed. No need to provide examples)
I understand that you disagree, and I absolutely respect that. However, your post actually supports what I said above about there being a huge difference between 8 and 11.
I'm totally with you on the JV games! I was just posting that elsewhere. Good point.
I can respect that but I see things from a completely different side. I would much rather be a part of a winning culture and hardly play then go 2-6 four years in a row and play. I would rather ride the bench and get a state title as a team than play all four quarters on a team that goes 2-6 and focus on being an individual player.
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I actually found your post after I had written mine. I really liked the direction you were going with that.
I am new to this conversation, but I have read a lot of this thread ,,,, with that being said being a part of a winning culture is special and a great feeling for a kid ,,,, but the beauty of 8 man football is that kids get the opportunity to play where as at other bigger schools they wouldn’t. Just my opinion but I’d rather play than watch others and ride the bench.
What if you never even got to the state title game? Just made it to the quarter-finals every year.
That was pretty much three of the four years when I was in high school. Football we won three district titles in a row, sophomore year lost in the semi’s by 6. Got upset in the playoffs freshman and junior years. Only had one year when we went under .500, my senior year and it sucked. I played the most that year too.
I loved being a part of a winning culture, even though I was a non factor for the big moments. But being able to practice with great players and being ranked as a team in the papers was awesome. I would never take that away to be 2-6 and play more.
I think this is a flaw in the 8 man vs 11 man view. Most 8 man schools are playing 12-14 players at the varsity level, that's it. 11 man teams play a lot more kids, especially the larger the class. No kids in 11 man aren't playing every play on offense, defense and special teams but they have a role somewhere. Now playing in for every play does start to happen with some of the C2 teams due to low roster numbers with minimal upper classman. Point is, to say that you would rather play 8 man and play then play 11 man and ride the bench is a little flawed.
I see your point, where overall there are probably more kids that get to play in 11 man where kids aren’t playing 2ways.
Spalding Academy was the one who broke up the original coop because they thought they could go it alone, so why would they change the consolidated name Riverside when it doesn't include Spalding or Cedar Rapids anyway? No uniform or mascot changes needed. High Plains doesn't reference Polk, Hordville, or Clarks. Twin River doesn't include Genoa or Silver Creek in the name. If HSF and LHF want to call themselves some other name so be it. It would be best to put the former mascots into the history books and move on with a new identity that merges the two towns' histories.
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