The State Baseball format is different than any other tournament. Can someone on this board explain it, it just does not make sense to me.
State Baseball Tourney Format
- Thread starter hdendzonecam
- Start date
https://nsaa-static.s3.amazonaws.com/textfile/base/bastate.pdf if you need to look at the bracket. Be careful, it might give you a headache.
https://nsaa-static.s3.amazonaws.com/textfile/base/manualba.pdf This is the baseball manual, which on page 19 enters into the twilight zone when it describes what happens on day 4 of the tournament. So if you win the 1st round, the 2nd round, win the semifinal game. Then you play another game and you will be in the finals whether you win or lose that game. HUH?
Yeah, it's a weird setup. Yes, you can potentially lose a game and still advance to the final.......all depends on how you did earlier in the tournament. It must have something to do with getting equal number of games played or something.
Not sure why they don't just use an 8 team double elimination bracket with a possible 2nd championship game. I don't understand why they are using that format. How is it better? If you win your first 3 games, you have to play again even though you are guaranteed to be in the finals? Why the different philosophy with baseball as opposed to all the other sports?
This is standard baseball format, and it's done because it eliminates the possibility of having your event spread out over 6 days. When you are renting facilities and relying on those facilities to be available, having a set number of days works a lot better.
In a traditional, double-elimination bracket where the loser plays back through to the winner's bracket champion, you could have a potential 6 day tournament. On day 5, you would have the loser's bracket championship. The winner would move on to the final against the winner's bracket champion. However, if the team with one loss wins that game, you would have to play the "if" game...........but, it couldn't be played until the following day. No team can play more than 2 games in a day, thus making both teams pack up and come back the next day.
In the modified format used by the NSAA and the American Legion, the tournament takes 5 days to play. There is no guess work in whether or not you'll need the 6th date. The team who wins the winner's bracket is still in the driver's seat. I've seen teams who are the undefeated team on day 4 throw "off", which may result in a loss, but it saves all of their best arms for a one-game winner take all final the following night. I've seen other teams who play to win the day 4 game so that they have to be beat twice on day 5.
I like the modified format, and it makes sense from a planning and scheduling standpoint.
In a traditional, double-elimination bracket where the loser plays back through to the winner's bracket champion, you could have a potential 6 day tournament. On day 5, you would have the loser's bracket championship. The winner would move on to the final against the winner's bracket champion. However, if the team with one loss wins that game, you would have to play the "if" game...........but, it couldn't be played until the following day. No team can play more than 2 games in a day, thus making both teams pack up and come back the next day.
In the modified format used by the NSAA and the American Legion, the tournament takes 5 days to play. There is no guess work in whether or not you'll need the 6th date. The team who wins the winner's bracket is still in the driver's seat. I've seen teams who are the undefeated team on day 4 throw "off", which may result in a loss, but it saves all of their best arms for a one-game winner take all final the following night. I've seen other teams who play to win the day 4 game so that they have to be beat twice on day 5.
I like the modified format, and it makes sense from a planning and scheduling standpoint.
Thanks for the explanation. Maybe if time and pitching is a factor, it should be single elimination over 3 days. Play the whole thing at Haymarket or Werner field.
Maybe if you get beat on day 1, you are just done. That would solve a lot of problems with time/pitching, and would allow the tournament to be held Sat, Monday and Wednesday. Give teams a day off and have a consolation game for 3rd and 4th if necessary. If it works for basketball, why not? Its next to impossible to have a team play 5 games right in a row and showcase the talent that got their team to State. Even with the excellent explanation from ACICOD, I'm not convinced. I wouldn't run a bracket like that for any level of baseball.
You are right about that. I'm not sure why its important to play the extra game before the finals. The legion tournament uses a slightly different format, the CWS also uses a different format. This one defies logic because of the burden it puts on a team that is 3-0. A 3-0 team should be the state champion.
ACICOD doesn't come on the board a lot, but when he or she does they come with guns a blazing and always have the right answers to the hard questions. I too agree with most of you about confusing with the format but i understand it from the NSAA stand point, the more days the more money you are getting, it's simple and the NSAA is all about the bottom dollar. I' m sure the state tourney umps get about 50 bucks a game not the usual 75 or whatever the rate is for hardball.
I noticed on the legion state bracket that the loser of the semifinal game plays later that night in the finals of the loser bracket. The finals are the next day with the winner bracket team having to lose twice, but win once. That format makes a heckuva lot more sense.
Another thing worth noting is that the Legion and HS bracket formats try really hard to not have re-matches. The bracket is set up in a way in which only upon rare occasions will a team suffer 2 losses to the same team.
