You Don't Walk My Halls
- Thread starter Buff-alo
- Start date
so looks like its not that big a problem to all then, but I would keep trying I have yet to see one based anything similar to other states
They get that game to play even if your not allowed to opt down, and forfeits will happen no matter what you do unless you increase class size Action take some action
There would be a lot more forfeits if teams were not allowed to opt down. I'm a firm believer that school has to do what is best for their students. If a school needs to opt down, then go ahead and opt down.
We at Wakefield have proposed the 50% free and reduced proposals the last two years in the month of November. It is based off of what the state of Minnesota does to help schools with a high poverty rate.
Also, good luck finding a "full" 8-man JV schedule if you went through the JV only route.
Without being willing to drive 1-2 hours one way on a Monday night, there's no way I could find 6 or more JV games for our team.
So these players should leave their hometowns/friends/coaches, make parents get them transportation, etc..... all because a couple “nuts” think they should have to option enroll?
When a school makes a decision for their kids it should be about whats best for them. What is the difference between a D2 team playing up against a D1 team or a D1 team playing a team that's playing D1 and ineligible for the playoffs? I believe that participation numbers are more relevant than enrollment. Perkins County had to forfeit games last year because of low numbers but they were right at the number for the eight man cutoff. I coached 8 man football and we played a lot of games in our D2 class that had 32 to 35 kids on their roster while we had 16.
If you think Missouri is so great, maybe you should move there. Don't try and tell students that they basically have to option(which isn't an option at all in this case) enroll when they consistently don't have 11 man numbers. Don't get me started on the JV schedule thing, you should be able to figure that out on your own.
You obviously have some sort of beef with some school that is doing this. The arguments that you make are not relevant in any realistic, small town scenario. There are NO schools doing this just to "take it out" on smaller enrollments. They are doing it in the best interest of their kids.
I am an innocent bystander here, never coached football in my life. Watched my 4 boys play football for 10 years in C-1 and C-2. Most years we suited under 20 players by mid-season, and were lucky to play 2 JV games a year. We consolidated about 20 years ago, and have never had a winning season. Most seasons we are lucky to win 2 games. Twin River football has struggled for sure.
Buff-alo has been pretty open here. He has put everything out there for all of the ridicule and criticism. He hasn't held anything back.
I am impressed to say the very least.
You two have a lot in common. You guys could probably help one another a great deal.
Thank you for the insight and that was a damn nice win last week!
Colorado also has a unique system of classifying schools, they use several factors, including enrollment, history of success and economic/socio demographics.
I don't believe he is accusing you of being a coward (which you are anything but). He is of the opinion that you have given up on the debate in favor of pointing him out as a coward because he won't put his name on his posts.
I have no dog in the fight I have not played or coached against a team who was opting down, but its not fair and have had heard from many school who do not like it at all and if I am looking for a state that doesn't allow opting down I have 40+ states to choice from young man
Wow, what a post.
Coach Hassler, I give you credit for being so open in your communication in this thread. You are setting a great example for your students in the way that you have presented this post. I would be a very proud parent if my kids were in your district. Accountability takes bravery. You are demonstrating that in your post.
The thing that most impresses me, and backs up everything you are sharing is the fact that YOU didn't decide to opt down. Your BOARD didn't decide to opt down. Your PLAYERS decided to opt down. That is admirable on their part. To give up the opportunity to maybe qualify for the playoffs in favor of being able to play a complete schedule at the Varsity and JV level.
In my opinion, the issue most take with teams opting down revolve around the number of games that team wins. If you were going 2-6 every year, nobody would have a problem with it.
Coach Hassler, I give you credit for being so open in your communication in this thread. You are setting a great example for your students in the way that you have presented this post. I would be a very proud parent if my kids were in your district. Accountability takes bravery. You are demonstrating that in your post.
The thing that most impresses me, and backs up everything you are sharing is the fact that YOU didn't decide to opt down. Your BOARD didn't decide to opt down. Your PLAYERS decided to opt down. That is admirable on their part. To give up the opportunity to maybe qualify for the playoffs in favor of being able to play a complete schedule at the Varsity and JV level.
In my opinion, the issue most take with teams opting down revolve around the number of games that team wins. If you were going 2-6 every year, nobody would have a problem with it.
Your 40 state argument doesn't carry any weight IMO. They can do what they want. They also have other rules that are different too. Here in Nebraska, I feel like we have always and need to do what is right FOR OUR KIDS.
Coach Frost has been pretty outspoken that he wants more kids to play football in Nebraska...... so we just start saying, "Play with low numbers in your division that risk the health of your kids with little to no development, or transfer." Just doesn't make sense.
Very interesting thread indeed. Thanks Buff for the inside look at the decision process. It sounds like you have your school, your team, your players, best interest at heart.
And Nut, I feel your pain, when it comes to the opting down, forfeiting games, affecting other teams playoff chances because as a school we can't make football (under the current set of rules) work for our situation.
For those of us who truly love high school football at any level, the true question is "Why are participation levels falling so dramatically?" Why ARE some schools a D-1 program in a C-2 body?
Is it a cultural thing? Are the Hispanic kids just not interested in playing football because in all reality they have never been exposed to it? Is it a lack of "junior football" programs that don't get kids involved at a younger age? Is it some jack wagon wanna be coach at the junior level, that turns kids off to the game, never to return? I don't know. I am sure every case is different. I just hate to see it happening. And every school and community has to address the problem in their own way.
And I am not a fan of throwing freshman in with seniors in any class. I have seen too any freshman injured, embarrassed, whatever, and lose their desire to play. Can some do it? Absolutely. But using freshman numbers and boosting a school up a class level does no one any good. I would rather see co-ops or consolidations so we have not only get a better brand of football, but a safer brand of football.
Great win for Wakefield last week. No doubt about it. But I also doubt Creighton is complaining about what class Wakefield should be in. One team came just a little more ready to play. If I know Creighton, this just may be enough to get them back to the finals. We will see how they respond.
And Nut, I feel your pain, when it comes to the opting down, forfeiting games, affecting other teams playoff chances because as a school we can't make football (under the current set of rules) work for our situation.
For those of us who truly love high school football at any level, the true question is "Why are participation levels falling so dramatically?" Why ARE some schools a D-1 program in a C-2 body?
Is it a cultural thing? Are the Hispanic kids just not interested in playing football because in all reality they have never been exposed to it? Is it a lack of "junior football" programs that don't get kids involved at a younger age? Is it some jack wagon wanna be coach at the junior level, that turns kids off to the game, never to return? I don't know. I am sure every case is different. I just hate to see it happening. And every school and community has to address the problem in their own way.
And I am not a fan of throwing freshman in with seniors in any class. I have seen too any freshman injured, embarrassed, whatever, and lose their desire to play. Can some do it? Absolutely. But using freshman numbers and boosting a school up a class level does no one any good. I would rather see co-ops or consolidations so we have not only get a better brand of football, but a safer brand of football.
Great win for Wakefield last week. No doubt about it. But I also doubt Creighton is complaining about what class Wakefield should be in. One team came just a little more ready to play. If I know Creighton, this just may be enough to get them back to the finals. We will see how they respond.
He is not a coward, he is following the rules and doing what is best for his school, It is my opinion that the rule of opting is bad only favors the team with the problem and shares their problem with other teams
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The factors are many, ELL kids that dont are usually first generation kids whose parents dont understand the benefits because they have zero exposure to it, another is lincoln and omaha schools are growing but football and sport opportunity for most kids in class A is just not reasonable due to size and athletic ability compared to Class A athletes, rural areas are shrinking in size fast and less schools means less kids out, another, what physical labor does a kid do in life, so its hard to convense them come sweat it out with us, pickup games and backyard football is played on a game station or computer or phone now in the AC, last but not least the ME generation gets harder and harder to convence to be part of a team. I am not mad at schools who opt down, its in the rules by all means do whats best for your schools but opting down is not a solution it just passes the problem on. A solutions need to take place, larger classifications or something, if we do not change it will die because passing on the problem will just cause more problems
Here goes nut again ranting and raving about opting down, it is about player safety, it is not safe to put kids in a varsity 11 man game that are not physically capable and subject them to unnecessary injuries. Kids need to be developed. Your argument is old and tired, districts decide what is best for their kids, Wakefield did the right thing for their kids and they have the right to do it
I am not mad at schools who opt down, its in the rules by all means do whats best for your schools but opting down is not a solution it just passes the problem on. A solutions need to take place, larger classifications or something, if we do not change it will die because passing on the problem will just cause more problems
Coach Hassler is doing what's best for the kids, nutty can't you see that!!!!
I am not mad at schools who opt down, its in the rules by all means do whats best for your schools but opting down is not a solution it just passes the problem on. A solutions need to take place, larger classifications or something, if we do not change it will die because passing on the problem will just cause more problems
What exactly is the problem that you keep stating? I why will football die because of it? You’ve stated that numerous times, but never actually say what you mean by that.
Less and less schools and less and less out, classification numbers need to rise, boy girl count was a nice step but more needs to change or in 15 years or less we will have one class of C and one class of 8-man and that will make even more of a discrepancy between top and bottom of class and result in opting which then creates a discrepancy in the opting class and passes the problem to less teams being eligible and produces less kids out and a bigger problem yet again Over the last 8 years we have seen at least 14% average of teams opting and not eligible and a huge swing in 6-man, it is right in front of our face that change is needed, opting just ignores the change and nothing happens
Nut - you keep saying that action needs to take place and people need to write up proposals - have you ever written up a proposal?
I dont believe Nutty is in a position to write up a proposal. It needs to come from the NSAA member schools.
I'll be one of the few on here to agree with the old Nut. The NSAA needs to look at root cause. Opting down is a bandaid. With a bandaid on the problem the wound is still there. Going to boy/girl enrollment was a good step. Increasing the enrollment for 8-man two years ago was also a big step though not far enough as it needs to match those of neighboring states. Just taking a stab but realistically it should be more towards 55-60.
I dont like that D1 has multiple schools that are in actuality C2. But with the enrollment cutoff where it's at they have little to no choice. The issue isn't optioning down, it's the cutoff limit.
Also, IMO the NSAA needs to seriously consider reducing the number of classes. One of the big reasons schools are often so reluctant to coop is for the fear of bumping up a class or two. Only my opinion but we should have 4 classes for all sports besides football. Football should have 5 because of 6-man. A, B, C, D, and D6. B needs to be expanded back to 32 or so schools.
Agreed 100%. 5 classes for football would help a lot. Reclassifying and redoing the numbers for A, B and C.
What do you think the numbers would look like
A--800 and up
B--799 to 199 ?
C 198 to down
D 60- down
D6 30 down
Tough part is one class has to be a large gap
One thing I would add to this reclassification scenario would be no opting down because we would assume the new numbers would be based on a boys only, or 3 grade moving average, or whatever the powers that be, deem as reasonable, to address the low participation numbers. But you could opt up if you end up a class D but want to stay in eleven man, or were a small Class B before and want to remain a Class B.
So last year I made a breakout of classifications. I still have it broken out in six classes. (549-200 and so on is boy enrollment)
Class A: 550 and above (24 teams) (The only non metro or Lincoln teams would be Fremont, GI and Kearney)
Class B: 549-200 (24 teams) (Columbus, Norfolk, North Platte, Pius etc)
It gets kind of messy here, but it could be arranged pretty easy I think.
Class C1: 200-70 (51 teams)
Class C2: 69-50 (45 teams)
Class D1: 50-30 (64 teams, 8 man)
Class D2: 30-0 (68 teams, 6 man)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/14Zb...N7iOHf/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msexcel
