Fan behavior and officiating
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Class B game leans heavily towards officiating getting worse. Sylvo Johnson and crew made sure to insert themselves into that game. He swallowed his whistle in the final seconds of the Gretna-Millard North game the night before.
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not even close, fan behavior is out of control and nobody seems to want to do anything about it but talk about it, no action just words
Fans/parents are definitely the worst. Some of my favorite games I ever coached were when things just started opening up after covid. Didn't allow any fans in the ballpark, just players, coaches, & umps. Man it was glorious.
I was present for every Boys final game yesterday.
I stayed up in our Suite so I can't really speak to the fan behavior as I wasn't around any.
Officiating. The officiating at the State Tournament was horrible. It was horrible because we get a replay of every single call. We get to micro analyze every whistle complete with slow motion. Were there missed calls, sure. Were there phantom calls, of course. These calls happen every single game, but there's no replay.
Case in point, Shelton vs Santee. Who in here could say that they wouldn't have blown that whistle if they had to make the call in real time? Keep in mind that you've had 4 quarters of watching this kid throwing his padded elbows around at neck level and higher. It becomes a "bad call" because of the replay.
Bad call of the day, #5 on Platteview's Millikan. He was literally just standing there, didn't even put a finger on the Skutt player. Replay is a beautiful thing.
By the way, does anyone know how many players in the 2023 Boys State Tournament played with elbow pads? Just curious.
I stayed up in our Suite so I can't really speak to the fan behavior as I wasn't around any.
Officiating. The officiating at the State Tournament was horrible. It was horrible because we get a replay of every single call. We get to micro analyze every whistle complete with slow motion. Were there missed calls, sure. Were there phantom calls, of course. These calls happen every single game, but there's no replay.
Case in point, Shelton vs Santee. Who in here could say that they wouldn't have blown that whistle if they had to make the call in real time? Keep in mind that you've had 4 quarters of watching this kid throwing his padded elbows around at neck level and higher. It becomes a "bad call" because of the replay.
Bad call of the day, #5 on Platteview's Millikan. He was literally just standing there, didn't even put a finger on the Skutt player. Replay is a beautiful thing.
By the way, does anyone know how many players in the 2023 Boys State Tournament played with elbow pads? Just curious.
I would agree with this. Those games were great on 2 fronts.
1- No fans in the stadium/gym to shout
2- Refs/Umpires were far less likely to make the game about themselves when there weren't fans to involve. Unfortunately, that is a growing theme. Credit guys like Angel Hernandez and Teddy Valentine for that. Seems like the louder the screams from the fans, the more egotistical SOME officials become.
***Side note: The amount of basketball officials that add enthusiasm and unnecessary body language to their calls only makes things worse. If you call a charge, you don't need to crow hop into the signal to call charge. Imagine a football official hopping into an offsides or pass interference call. Its a big cry for attention, which only stirs the fans up even more. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
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Fans. And it isn't close. Refs have an impossible job in this era of video replay expectations, and self centered, narcissiatic behavior. Every single aspect of our society has gotten angrier, more demanding, less thoughtful, more self- important than ever. Why would sports be any different? Refs are being asked to officiate a game that is becoming almost unrecognizable. Think about the "let em play!" bunch... until it's THEIR shooter being bumped. Or the fact that any time a carry or travel is called, it's a shock as to why THAT violation was noted. I'm not, to say the least, a big fan of the current state of officiating, but i can't, for the life of me give any suggestions on what to do about it. I thought the Class A game last night was the worst level of play I've seen at that level in many years, maybe ever. Reminded me of really talented kids playing rec ball or summer camp ball. YOU try officiating that mess. I probably didn't add anything to this conversation but i think high school sports are in big, big trouble. And that worries me.
Agree with a lot of this, though I can't comment on the class A game because I didn't see it.
Something I think would be worth a shot would be for schools to offer a generic sport 101 for parents when they come to athletic registration at the beginning of the year. Or maybe do one in the fall, winter, and spring. Explain some simple rules, go through rule changes from the previous year to this year, etc... Might help prevent dad in the 13th row from screaming "over the back". A lot of parents and fans think pass interference is an automatic first down in HS. It isn't. They think it is because they see it on Saturdays and Sunday. Wouldn't take much for schools (or individual coaches) to give a 30 minute presentation on those types of things for their sport.
I agree on the Class A game. I was so disappointed watching it. I was looking most forward to that game, and it was a huge flop. Dribble dribble drive drive drive, shooters open every direction, just fight over the same 5' by 5' square of court under the basket.
Why has that become the preferred style of play? I don't believe there was a starter over 6'4". Maybe all of the tall kids were on the Skutt roster?
Great idea. I suggested it at our HS when my kids were playing.
I was a basketball coach for 23 years. I have had a few disagreements with officials in the heat of the game but they were short lived. IMO we have got to start supporting our officials in all sports. Do they make mistakes? of course they do, they are human and basketball is an extremely tough sport to officiate. I am certain that 99% of the referees officiate because they love the game and enjoy working with kids and coaches. The money is not that great, the time and travel commitment is substantial and I believe that they deserve our respect! I hope fan behavior will improve, otherwise high school sports may cease as we know them.
I did not make it down to state basketball this year but from watching at home and just listening to fans through the tv was sickening. Fan behavior is at an all time low. I understand school pride and wanting your team to win but I think the issue is a lack of knowledge combined with people being completely careless without repercussions.
I've been coaching for a decade now and I will admit yes officials make mistakes, it's human nature. But it does you no good as a player, coach, or fan to scream/react to a call. I know a lot of officials personally and the majority work games because they love the game and want to be there for the kids and teams. No official that I know of goes into games with a vendetta. People think that is the case, I guarantee you it's not. All these gyms anymore have a banner or something that talks about sportsmanship but all fail to display it with their actions.
It's something that has got to change. There's no wonder why there's a shortage in officials anymore. Why travel and get screamed at for 2+ hours any given night for minimal pay?
We need to do better
I've been coaching for a decade now and I will admit yes officials make mistakes, it's human nature. But it does you no good as a player, coach, or fan to scream/react to a call. I know a lot of officials personally and the majority work games because they love the game and want to be there for the kids and teams. No official that I know of goes into games with a vendetta. People think that is the case, I guarantee you it's not. All these gyms anymore have a banner or something that talks about sportsmanship but all fail to display it with their actions.
It's something that has got to change. There's no wonder why there's a shortage in officials anymore. Why travel and get screamed at for 2+ hours any given night for minimal pay?
We need to do better
I can't believe how many people complain about officiating. It is such a thankless job and it's not easy. I reffed junior high basketball for one season and that was enough for me. 😂 It's tough!
Fans can be better. It's amazing how many fans complain about calls that happen in the first half of a game. Remember, if we don't have officials, we don't have the games.
Honestly, the players need to be held more accountable too by their respective coaches. Nothing is more infuriating than when a kid holds his hands up after he's called for a foul or is whining at the ref about it. That comes back to coaching. Sit that kid down. Players should never complain to a referee.
Fans can be better. It's amazing how many fans complain about calls that happen in the first half of a game. Remember, if we don't have officials, we don't have the games.
Honestly, the players need to be held more accountable too by their respective coaches. Nothing is more infuriating than when a kid holds his hands up after he's called for a foul or is whining at the ref about it. That comes back to coaching. Sit that kid down. Players should never complain to a referee.
I officiated games for years when I was younger and recently got back into doing middle school, freshman, & JV games because of the officiating shortage. Coaches & players will occasionally take issue with a call. That's happened forever & won't change. A quick word with them usually diffuses the situation.
Fan behavior is worse than ever, even at middle school games. A couple of fans (usually the same ones at each school/game) get the ball rolling and then others follow. It helps tremendously when an administrator steps in early & gives an irate fan a "1 more and you're outta here" warning. Some schools are great about this but many aren't.
An NSAA sportsmanship message is delivered on the PA before every varsity game. If schools would include another message about being removed from the gym for bad behavior, the situation could improve.
Fan behavior is worse than ever, even at middle school games. A couple of fans (usually the same ones at each school/game) get the ball rolling and then others follow. It helps tremendously when an administrator steps in early & gives an irate fan a "1 more and you're outta here" warning. Some schools are great about this but many aren't.
An NSAA sportsmanship message is delivered on the PA before every varsity game. If schools would include another message about being removed from the gym for bad behavior, the situation could improve.
But its the same old boys getting to do all the games down there. There were guys down there for both boys and girls. It sure isn't what you know but who you know. I know quite a few officials that do a great job that have never been down there, and have been doing for 20 plus years.
Absolutely! Coach do nothing to their kids when they are out there with their hands up questioning every call. As an official, it makes it pretty hard, and I have lost a lot of respect for some good coaches because of this.
This is a both a fan problem and an official problem. I get it, officiating is a thankless job. It is also a PAID job. When you get paid to do something, you need to do a quality job. The biggest issue I have with this debate is that there is no accountability system on the officiating side. If a parent gets out of hand we can throw them out. We can prevent them from attending in the future. An official gets out of hand (or is just plain bad) and nothing happens. They continue to get games. They continue to get paid. They continue to cause more problems than they solve. All because "we have a shortage of officials" (more on that later).
Coaches are asked to send in film with questionable calls...they send it in and nothing happens. The end of the class B game was criminal. Sylvo Johnson ends the career of the best player in the state with 3 minutes left, just because he felt like it. Nothing happens to him. The kid has to live the rest of his life in wonder. I'm all for cleaning up the crowd...just as soon as we institute some form of officiating accountability.
I don't buy an "officiating shortage" for a second. What evidence do we have that there is a shortage of officials? There might be less officials than we once had, but that certainly doesn't mean we have a shortage. What line of employment isn't down workers right now? If we had a true shortage we would be moving games to non-traditional nights so we could recycle crews throughout the week. Basketball would be playing on more Wednesday nights. Football would be playing on Thursdays and Saturdays. That isn't happening. We aren't reducing the contest limits for each team. If we were short on officials we would be cutting down the number of games teams can play.
Coaches are asked to send in film with questionable calls...they send it in and nothing happens. The end of the class B game was criminal. Sylvo Johnson ends the career of the best player in the state with 3 minutes left, just because he felt like it. Nothing happens to him. The kid has to live the rest of his life in wonder. I'm all for cleaning up the crowd...just as soon as we institute some form of officiating accountability.
I don't buy an "officiating shortage" for a second. What evidence do we have that there is a shortage of officials? There might be less officials than we once had, but that certainly doesn't mean we have a shortage. What line of employment isn't down workers right now? If we had a true shortage we would be moving games to non-traditional nights so we could recycle crews throughout the week. Basketball would be playing on more Wednesday nights. Football would be playing on Thursdays and Saturdays. That isn't happening. We aren't reducing the contest limits for each team. If we were short on officials we would be cutting down the number of games teams can play.
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Couple things about this post.
1- I agree there's no accountability. But with crazy parents in the youth ranks, how are young officials supposed to remain interested to work up the ranks to replace others?
2- he did not end his career. He didn't throw him out for no reason. He had 4 previous fouls. Real time, looked like a 50/50 call. REPLAY showed it wasn't really a foul. The player put himself in the position to be in jeopardy of getting called for his 5th. There has to be accountability on that end too.
Agree that youth sports is definitely a problem. Spend a weekend at UBT or Iowa West Field house and it is enough to make you crazy. Definitely agree that drives officials away, especially when those guys are making fractions of what high school officials are making. I don't know what a basketball crew gets paid in HS, but a good football crew will make $600-$700 a game. Thats $125-$140 each for 2 hours of work. Pretty good pay in my opinion.
Disagree about the 5th foul. I don't think the player needs to be held accountable for being in defensive rebounding position. He should trust that the paid official is competent enough to not whistle him for his 5th foul. It would be different if it was close. It wasn't in this case. He just stood there, then boom. Gone.
Commentators brought up an interesting topic during state... Allowing high school foul limit to be bumped up to 6 before DQ. That would definitely be an interesting proposal, not sure if it will ever happen. The reasoning or thought behind it I guess is to take the pressure off the officials and players.
Could this be a simple solution or just add to the problem?
Could this be a simple solution or just add to the problem?
If Nebraska doesn't see a rise in officials in the next 5 years, we will see more high school football on Thursday and Saturday's. Guarantee.
I don't know have a strong opinion either way on that suggestion. I am curious why we have instant replay in the state finals in some sports, but not others. That would have would relieved some pressure in the basketball games Saturday, for sure.
I believe we rescheduled 1 football game for Thursday and had another start at 4 so the crew could do 2 in the same night.
The replay is hurting more than it is helping. Show it on the Television Broadcast if you want, but don't show it in the Arena.
Showing the replay in the arena wouldn't hurt anything if officials were allowed to overturn their calls. The problem is when they make a call and can't consult the replay, but the crowd gets to see that an incorrect call was made.
Ya, it's tough. We want to keep the game moving for sure.
I often wonder when infractions are called (Football, Basketball, any sport I guess) does the official see the actual infraction, or is it that they see the situational result of what was probably an infraction. You see the Defensive End clear the Tackle, and the next thing you know the DE is on the ground with the Tackle on top of them...probably a hold. You see a rebounder jump and land 3 feet in front of where they took off...probably a push in the back. I don't know if I am doing a good job of explaining my point here.
I have never been a basketball official, and it is a really good thing. If I were a basketball official, I would just leave my whistle at the scorer's table to keep it out of my way. Let 'em play. 😁
Sandhills/Thedford and Hitchcock County did play each other on a Saturday this past season because it's the only day they could get officials. Thursday games are very common. There were also a few games played in the afternoon so the officials could do two games in the same day.
I have seen it a few times in the summer for baseball games. Starting or finishing a game with one umpire, more so over the last 2-3 years.
I should have specified ***more*** Thursday and Saturday games than what already exists. We've always had teams playing on Thursday, but that is more of a facility issue than it is an officials issue. Stadiums being shared (Millard North, Millard South, Millard West at Buell and the Lincoln schools at Seacrest) forces teams to play on Thursday/Saturday, or double headers like 4:00 and 7:30 kickoffs.
It's not a facility issue west of Seward, it's an officials issue.
Here are games from Thursday, September 22, 2022 for example. It's not a lot, but it's not just one or two.
CLASS C1
Aurora 54, St. Paul 13
CLASS D2
Ainsworth 63, Chambers/Wheeler Central 14
Mullen 46, Anselmo-Merna 14
Osceola 46, Giltner 6
CLASS D6
Brady 32, Wallace 12
Hampton 65, Elba 6
Shelton 46, Franklin 6
Southwest 58, Wauneta-Palisade 21
Sumner-Eddyville-Miller 61, Wilcox-Hildreth 6
St. Edward 75, Santee 26
Here are games from Thursday, October, 6, 2022.
CLASS B
Beatrice 42, Crete 14
CLASS C1
Omaha Roncalli 45, Fort Calhoun 21
CLASS C2
Gordon-Rushville 56, Atkinson West Holt 19
CLASS D1
Arapahoe 69, Southern Valley 42
CLASS D2
Ainsworth 36, O'Neill St. Mary's 30
Fullerton 60, Giltner 22'
Loomis 52, Medicine Valley 16
Sandhills/Thedford 51, Leyton 12
CLASS D6
Garden County 58, Banner County 8
Shelton 57, Wilcox-Hildreth 14
I know of some crews in my area (northeast) that do 3 games a week numerous times a year. Thursday, then an early/late Friday due to shortages.
Ya, it is a real issue for sure. It used to be difficult to get on a Football Officiating Crew. I had friends that worked at it for a couple years to get on a full time crew.
Now you want to be careful publicly stating an interest in officiating. Your phone won't stop ringing.
Hailvictors is absolutely wrong, every part of the state has less officials then the previous year, i believe the NSAA in 2021 said they were down like 500 officials from the previous year, now could they be the problem, yes they are some of it but people are tired of getting screamed at for hours and days at a time. I know football crews who work two games on fridays probably 70 percent of the season. it's getting worse and worse, young people are few and far between, i would say the average age of officicials is 45 and those guys won't be around forever.
I don't dispute we have less officials. I know we have less officials. Having less of something doesn't mean we have a shortage. The crews that do 2 games a night WANT to do 2 games a night. If they didn't want to do it, they wouldn't do it. That's not a shortage.
I agree with what you are saying in that the Officiating Crews wouldn't do it if they didn't want to.
There is another side of this, and that is the Coaches, Players, Support Staff, and Fans. They don't want to be playing games at 4:00 in the afternoon. They aren't doing it because they want to, they are doing it because they don't have a choice due to a lack of Officials.
You’re right they want to do the extra game,
-to help the younger kids get the jv or reserves game in
-to have some extra cash for the house/family
-extra beer money
-to put away cash to stop officiating as soon as they can
-they love the game
There are all kinds of reasons people still officiate with the fans, coaches and players behaving the way they do.
Each year as a coach I get asked to have my guys that graduate to ask them to look over the idea of being an official because guys are leaving at higher numbers than the past.
you have to have officials to have games right? that is why there are 3 pm games on fridays so the players can play, when else are you supposed to have the game if no officials are around. and those officials who work friday afternoon games are taking vacation time from their jobs to go and do the games. so don't tell me there isn't a shortage of stripes because I know better.
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