I am 100% in favor of a faith based education I am very familiar with private schools and very familiar with private school coaches You could even say first hand familiar with both private and public. The advantage of no special ed due to a lack of funding for services is a choice and is a difference in a true count of enrollment of between 10% and 15% Lets say you even go with 10% that adjustment in enrollment puts Parkview, FCSH in D1 and moves a few into each class up. This would be fair in a count of true enrollment and would take that advantage of a true count away
Is Parkview Christian the Best D-2 Boys Team Ever
- Thread starter ClkTwr2011
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So if Sacred Heart got bumped up to D1 tomorrow and keeps winning, then what? Bump them to 11 man football with 21 boys in their grades 9-11 count? (This year they have 28 boys per the NSAA classifications)
Frankly, I don't believe you. IF it wasn't needed, why offer it? And if it wasn't needed, why accept? So all of those amazing athletes at Wahoo, just CHOSE not to attend to go to what is considered a a really good college-prep school in Wahoo Neumann, for free? I'm a public school guy and this concept of "athletic scholarships" just doesn't hold water. Period. You can try again, if you wish. Any family that could, but choose not to, pay tuition, but will not change their kids school just because it's the same free as the taxpayer funded tuition provides... makes zero sense. Sheesh. I don't know you, so I can't say for sure, but there seems to be this segment of people, mostly from schools that are really, really atrocious at sports that, despite common sense, despite all the facts to the contrary, continue with this belief that somehow Private Schools are at some big advantage that can only be explained by something nefarious. Perhaps, MAYBE before open enrollment you could make some sort of argument. One of the things about the people pushing option enrollments was the argument that it would HURT private schools, which actually makes some sense. ANY kid can now pick his/her school tuition free. It hasn't. The parents that choose private education also choose, somewhat significant, financial and/or time commitments to educate their children, while also paying, more, in most cases their fair share of YOUR child's education. You should thank them. I do.
so you are say there is no advantage to not having any special education students in your school district when it comes to enrollment count for classification ?
Just saying people where complaining about them in the 90's and 00's. Same with HSF.
but would we have if they would have to add that 10% ? Its a good question
I understand what you are saying, but the thing I question is this concept that SpEd kids can't, don't, whatever participate. In many cases they excel. I've seen it personally many times. I wish I could find that article about D1 male athletes. I see your point with those severely affected by physical and learning disabilities. Do we add back the count to for any kids who participate that fit the Special Needs label? What if Humphrey High has near zero students that fit? Does St Francis still get dinged a set %? I don't think that moving to D1 for the mentioned schools matters much. I don't think they beat any of the top 3 in D1, but they would still take spots at state away from 2 others.
I don't know of ANY schools that have no special needs students. But honestly, no. Forest Gump aside, because a kid has trouble reading doesn't mean he can't ball. Or wrestle. Or run. Whatever. You act like everyone is in a wheelchair or something. You also don't account for the fact that some districts are much, much more likely to label, excuse me, verify kids than others. Any SpEd teacher that changes jobs will tell you that.
They in fact would not win at the level they are and would not win as many state titles also, yes you do have rare cases of special needs in varsity sports but it is rare otherwise how do you explain the need for a special olympics ?
And if they keep winning? Keep bumping them up? Ban them from the playoffs? And, it isn't that "rare". Again, the ability to read, understand math, in short, to have learning disabilities in a traditional classroom setting, generally has nothing to do with athletic ability. Honestly, I'm open to some sort of success criteria being included into classification, provided it's done with sense and intelligence. But it needs to apply to all schools. To punish all private schools because there are a few that your school can't beat seems extreme. Brownell-Talbot shouldn't be affected.
There is not requirement of belief here. You don't have to believe me. The family refused the offer in favor of public school.
We don't know one another. Honestly I wish we did. I enjoy your perspective and would love to hear the stories that I am certain you have to tell.
I don't believe there is anything nefarious about Private schools. Shoot, I don't even have a problem with scholarships that are geared toward athletics. Private schools are free to do as they wish.
Private and Public schools are not the same. Nebraska is certainly not the only state in which Private Schools dominate the state basketball tournament. These schools are different in their makeup. At their core, they both educate students. The similarities beyond that core are not as obvious.
Let's look at GICC and their boys basketball program. I bring them up because a very good friend teaches and has coached at Grand Island Senior High. GISH has (depending upon the recruiting service) one of the top 5 players in the nation in Isaac Traudt. He is phenomenal, but his supporting cast is not at the level to make even the best player in the state able to make GISH competitive in Class A. I asked the simple question, if the players from GICC were on the GISH team, are they of the caliber to see any playing time (moving form C2 to A). With no hesitation, he told me that 3 would play a lot and 2 would be starters. So how do the 6'10" tall (example, I don't know their height) Somalian kids find their way to the private school in GI? Same way everyone else does would be the natural answer...right? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Either way, I don't have a problem with it. There are no rules against it. But the public and private schools are not the same.
A simple google search of this will produce hundreds of articles addressing the issue of sports in public vs private high schools. This is not a Nebraska thing. This is an everywhere thing.
again no you do not keep bumping them up, again I am for private schools, again the difference here is a true count towards enrollment and classification So again are you say their is NO advantage in enrollment classification of a true count if you have no special needs students ? and yet again if you say no there is not an advantage then I ask why do they have a special olympics ??
Senior High in GI had their own share of transfers. A starter from St Paul, for example, wasn't eligible u?ntil the Holidays this season. You really want me to believe that instead of taking a full scholarship at a Class A school, getting the exposure of playing with a high major D 1 commit, these guys take a full scholarship at a C2 school, just...because? Hmmmm...ok. There are a large number of Somali's and other East African's walking the halls at Senior High. Maybe the folks at Central Catholic just take the time to include and develop these kids?
I agree that they are not the same. Public schools have so many advantages it isn't even comparable. The ONLY advantage that private schools have is culture and climate. Facilities, payroll, academic standards all are tilted in favor of public schools.
You keep acting like every special needs kid is SEVERELY disabled in some fashion. Those kids are a very small fraction of a small fraction. I could live with not counting SpEd kids...provided they can't participate in activities. But that hardly seems right or fair to them.
again I am for private schools, again the difference here is a true count towards enrollment and classification So again are you say their is NO advantage in enrollment classification of a true count if you have no special needs students ? and yet again if you say no there is not an advantage then I ask why do they have a special olympics ??
Well, I guess we have it sorted out.
Parkview Christian has the best culture and climate and develops their players better than anyone else in Class D2 this year. They are likely not better than the mid 80's Clearwater teams. The players at Parkview Christian are all paying tuition or if they aren't paying they are from families in a position of financial need.
Were the GICC players you are referencing transfers or have they been at GICC all the way through? Or maybe you were making a general statement there.
What do you mean by Culture being superior in a private school? What defines Culture? What factors contribute to Culture? Please go deeper than "work ethic" with this. You know things that everyone doesn't know because of your experiences. Explain this to me.
i would just like to stay on topic of special needs students, seems to avoid that
Ironically, I just had a public school teacher in my office. She is a para in the Special Needs department. I literally just got done drilling her about this stuff (because she knows) and because I have known her for about 5 years.
What percentage of total student body does she consider Special Needs (to the degree that they would not be allowed to participate in athletics), between 10 and 15 percent. I was shocked by that number. I would have guessed like 5%.
It never ceases to amaze the people who have no idea what goes on in parochial schools but still speak about it like they are the authority because they just “think” and assume these schools are operating shady/offering schollies/etc. People turn their assumptions into fact because they dont get the parochial school systems and support. Get mad at losing and then Assume assume assume. (No I’m not from a parochial powerhouse but do have connections). I dont follow basketball much other than state.
In my experience public and private, public schools recruit for athletics more, and it really isnt close. However I dont know what goes on in parkview christian. They very well might be shady, but I dont know. I also dont claim what goes on at every public school nor do I think public schools should be punished. I also dont get jealous about success. Big fan of howells and what they did/are doing, how come no one complains about them winning?
Clktwr, stop gaslighting about “this isnt about parochial vs public” when it very clearly is and you want it to be. You cant talk about them in general and pretend otherwise. If you want this to be about parkview make it only about parkview. But you arent because you dont.
In my experience public and private, public schools recruit for athletics more, and it really isnt close. However I dont know what goes on in parkview christian. They very well might be shady, but I dont know. I also dont claim what goes on at every public school nor do I think public schools should be punished. I also dont get jealous about success. Big fan of howells and what they did/are doing, how come no one complains about them winning?
Clktwr, stop gaslighting about “this isnt about parochial vs public” when it very clearly is and you want it to be. You cant talk about them in general and pretend otherwise. If you want this to be about parkview make it only about parkview. But you arent because you dont.
Wow dude, you are clueless, and maybe focusing on skin color a little much. What if I told you that GICC has black students who….gasp!…..dont play sports at all?
Youre just mad they dont go to school where you think they should. Do you know why they go to GICC? If not, then shut up about it. Maybe its none of your business.
Really? You know that for sure?
I meant you should name specific schools because you are wrong in general.
If so please point me to the school, so i can see as directed by state law for all special need students regardless of public or private, the special Ed director, the 504 plan IEP schedule and I could list several more mandatory reports not one school has submitted to my knowledge Again I state this is a mandatory requirement for all schools Please point it out for me would you
If you read back to the beginning of my thread, you will see that I am not the one that kept bringing this thing back to private vs public. I tried several times to disregard the direction that the thread was going. I even defended Parkview (where I started this thing) as the whole recruiting thing opened up.
I have never attended a private school nor have any of my kids. I don't know all about the inner workings of the private schools and I don't claim to. If I wanted the thread to be about "parochial vs public", I would have started a thread titled exactly that.
I would like to point out that I have learned a lot in this thread. It isn't a bunch of people coming at others in fits of rage or a bunch of name calling either. It has been a very mature and meaningful thread (to me).
I clearly explained WHY I chose GICC in my post. You can read it again if you wish.
The point of that post was to point out that there are schools that benefit and schools that suffer when students make their choices regarding high school attendance. Even when one of the BEST PLAYERS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY is in the equation.
Any implication you are trying to make regarding my comments to be skin color focused are weak.
Again saying “all private schools don’t have special needs students” is not correct.
I think at the end of the day this thread was about Parkview. And it’s been a good discussion about everything but Parkview ha.
Let’s just let this thread end on a decent note. I do appreciate all the banter, this has been the most “productive” thread regarding this topic I’ve ever read on here.
Let’s just let this thread end on a decent note. I do appreciate all the banter, this has been the most “productive” thread regarding this topic I’ve ever read on here.
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You do realize that the sped director can be from a local public school, right? And the kid still attends the private school? Maybe you didnt.
Also 504 and IEP plans are private and classified.
504 and IEP? Heck thats easy dude:
90% or more of parochial schools in the state.
Witnessed with my own eyes/knowledge:
Pius X
Creighton Prep
Norfolk Catholic
Hartington CC
West Point GACC
Lincoln Lutheran
A quick search shows the following schools have SPED and/or resource teachers:
Norfolk Catholic
Hartington CC
GICC (yes THAT gicc brought up above)
GACC (one elem, one hs, and literally advertising on the teach in nebraska website for another elem sped teacher)
Kearney Catholic (2)
Pius X (multiple..and they advertise help with LPS services….why advertise that of they didn't want sped students?)
Jeeze I stopped looking. I didnt look up one that didnt have it available. I guess if I searched literally every school I might find one. You do not need the above teachers if you have no sped. Parochial schools dont have money to throw around carelessly for no reason.
I’m sure you’ll find a way to twist this and try to avoid that you made a rather bold statement and stood firmly by it, despite your ignorance. Will it continue, or will you admit you were wrong?
I do realize these are not made public, IEP and 504 as far as names but percentages are and I also know that these are in extremely low numbers compared to public schools and when I mean low I mean less than 1% and not reported at the state level as far as level of sped and sped services offered, so you have no facts to back your claims except you say and you know, great and all just not a fact bud sorry but that is a fact Again I will say this is what you know without any facts or numbers to prove it other than what you know, the total number of sped students in private schools is less than 1%
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Just wanted to chime in because I attended a parochial school, have taught at a parochial school and have taught/coached at multiple public high schools...
In my opinion, parochial schools have a couple clear advantages:
1. All of the kids' families who go to those schools are invested because they pay tuition or maybe volunteer their time to supplement the tuiton. If a student is of financial need then the parochial school can be choosy while public schools must educate all kids. This creates an advantageous atmosphere of kids and families who are highly motivated to achieve at a high level.
2. Parochial schools may have kids whom are special ed (usually it is a deal where it is a manageable learning disability) but they do not have students with disabilities that would not allow them or greatly hinder them from participating in varsity sports. I am highly educated and very well could have had a learning disability but the school I attended did not have a special ed department so I have never had an IEP, instead my teachers, the school, and mostly my family were able to give me the extra help necessary to be successful.
Myths that I have experienced...
1. Parochial schools recruit athletes and give them a scholarship. In my experiences, I cannot identify one time where that is true. First of all, parochial schools are recruiting ALL kids, not just athletes. Also, anyone who is on scholarship is financial need and I have seen almost as many non-standout athletes as multi-sport standout athletes.
2. Public schools don't recruit -- take a look at next year's rosters in Class A football and you will know that is a bunch of garbage. Westside, North, and Bell West will have multiple kids on their rosters that were on some other high schools rosters a year ago. Bell West is extremely dirty with this stuff. I have not witnessed Creighton Prep getting in on any of these high profile kids that you will find out are transferring.
3. Rural Parochial schools recruiting athletes and/or controlling their enrollment numbers -- I went to a rural Catholic school so I know that neither of these are true. Again, the more seats that are filled equals more financial stability for the school and the rural Parochial schools are the ones that have the tightest budgets so to say someone is not letting someone in just to stay in Class C is a bunch of crap -- maybe they are able to bend the rules and admit students after they have to share info with NSAA but that can't be a large number.
Those are my two cents. Do parochial schools have an advantage? No doubt about it
Do they recruit athletes more than others and control their enrollment numbers? In my experiences, public schools recruit way more than parochial and I believe parochial schools recruit everyone, not just athletes.
In my opinion, parochial schools have a couple clear advantages:
1. All of the kids' families who go to those schools are invested because they pay tuition or maybe volunteer their time to supplement the tuiton. If a student is of financial need then the parochial school can be choosy while public schools must educate all kids. This creates an advantageous atmosphere of kids and families who are highly motivated to achieve at a high level.
2. Parochial schools may have kids whom are special ed (usually it is a deal where it is a manageable learning disability) but they do not have students with disabilities that would not allow them or greatly hinder them from participating in varsity sports. I am highly educated and very well could have had a learning disability but the school I attended did not have a special ed department so I have never had an IEP, instead my teachers, the school, and mostly my family were able to give me the extra help necessary to be successful.
Myths that I have experienced...
1. Parochial schools recruit athletes and give them a scholarship. In my experiences, I cannot identify one time where that is true. First of all, parochial schools are recruiting ALL kids, not just athletes. Also, anyone who is on scholarship is financial need and I have seen almost as many non-standout athletes as multi-sport standout athletes.
2. Public schools don't recruit -- take a look at next year's rosters in Class A football and you will know that is a bunch of garbage. Westside, North, and Bell West will have multiple kids on their rosters that were on some other high schools rosters a year ago. Bell West is extremely dirty with this stuff. I have not witnessed Creighton Prep getting in on any of these high profile kids that you will find out are transferring.
3. Rural Parochial schools recruiting athletes and/or controlling their enrollment numbers -- I went to a rural Catholic school so I know that neither of these are true. Again, the more seats that are filled equals more financial stability for the school and the rural Parochial schools are the ones that have the tightest budgets so to say someone is not letting someone in just to stay in Class C is a bunch of crap -- maybe they are able to bend the rules and admit students after they have to share info with NSAA but that can't be a large number.
Those are my two cents. Do parochial schools have an advantage? No doubt about it
Do they recruit athletes more than others and control their enrollment numbers? In my experiences, public schools recruit way more than parochial and I believe parochial schools recruit everyone, not just athletes.
very well put Agree with all, recruiting to me is not an issue and never has been. I would agree with the parents are invested and the one thing most people do not want to talk about at any school is social economics has more to do with winning and losing than just about anything. My point was and is that private schools have much much less special education students than public schools and as close to zero as you can get to disabled special education students. That is where a they have a clear advantage in a true count for classification and you could easily justify the state average in that area as a percentage of bump for private or a percentage of decrease to public in classification numbers
That is either an intentional lie or a case of woeful self-delusion. Sorry to be a jack, but a couple of you guys sound like bitter tin-foil hat guys.
I am in full support of a faith based education and recruiting to me is not an issue and never has been. I would agree with the parents are invested and the one thing most people do not want to talk about at any school is social economics has more to do with winning and losing than just about anything. My point was and is that private schools have much much less special education students than public schools and as close to zero as you can get to disabled special education students. That is where a they have a clear advantage in a true count for classification and you could easily justify the state average in that area as a percentage of bump for private or a percentage of decrease to public in classification numbers
Good question. I suspect the response will reveal that Parkview is a very isolated situation in which they do things completely different than anyone else...given their track record and whatnot.
Being 100% honest, I'd be a recruiting fool if I were in a private school position of power. I'd get my buddies on the hook to sponsor my recruits and we'd go play ball! Don't think for a second that I'm kidding here. It is not against the rules. People speak of recruiting as if it's cheating. It is not cheating.
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