Basketball New Basketball Postseason Needed

[hailvictors2]

This is flawed logic. Platteview's best win is Crete (in your opinion). Platteview SHOULD beat Wahoo because they are a Class C-1 school. Bigger school enrollment alone constitutes what should be a win? Yet Wahoo beat Crete, Seward twice, and Bennington, all Class B schools, all Division 1 or 2 teams. Those 3 teams should have beat Wahoo because Wahoo is C-1 (your logic), yet it didn't happen.

Who do I take in Platteview vs Elkhorn South? Who cares? I am trying to make the point that the NSAA taking over the scheduling is not the solution. It has nothing to do with who I take in the head to head in any game.

We can make an improvement by simply going to a modified serpentine. We don't have to destroy and rebuild the entire scheduling system. I am attempting to promote improvement, not perfection.

I can agree with that. I am attempting to promote improvement, not perfection as well. We can make an improvement by simply modifying the power point system. If Prep beats Omaha Central it should be worth more than if Prep beat Falls City Sacred Heart....right now our system says they are worth the same. We have teams that got into the state tournament through geography and teams that got in through sub-state serpentine play in. In both cases, there were teams that benefited tremendously from playing schools outside of their class. Platteview played a schedule of nearly 50% C1 teams. South Loup played a schedule of 66% class D teams. South Loup's class D1 win over level 2 Ansley-Litchfield is NOT the same as their class C2 win over level 2 Amherst. Until that gets fixed, the serpentine won't be close. Inflated power points wreck the serpentine. That's all I am saying.

Looking strictly at this year's state tournament there is only 1 class that pretty much stuck to playing schools in its own class, and that is class A. All 8 teams played almost entirely class A schedules....and the state tournament results show that the right 8 teams are in Lincoln. Every game but 1 has gone to OT or been a single digit game.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

I can agree with that. I am attempting to promote improvement, not perfection as well. We can make an improvement by simply modifying the power point system. If Prep beats Omaha Central it should be worth more than if Prep beat Falls City Sacred Heart....right now our system says they are worth the same. We have teams that got into the state tournament through geography and teams that got in through sub-state serpentine play in. In both cases, there were teams that benefited tremendously from playing schools outside of their class. Platteview played a schedule of nearly 50% C1 teams. South Loup played a schedule of 66% class D teams. South Loup's class D1 win over level 2 Ansley-Litchfield is NOT the same as their class C2 win over level 2 Amherst. Until that gets fixed, the serpentine won't be close. Inflated power points wreck the serpentine. That's all I am saying.

Looking strictly at this year's state tournament there is only 1 class that pretty much stuck to playing schools in its own class, and that is class A. All 8 teams played almost entirely class A schedules....and the state tournament results show that the right 8 teams are in Lincoln. Every game but 1 has gone to OT or been a single digit game.

The problem with this is the Conference affiliations that schools have. Many of these Conferences go back generations. The East Husker Conference consists of Class C-1 through Class D-2 schools. There are area rivalries that are a tremendous part of the system and community pride. Then there is the common sense factor. It just makes common sense to play teams that are near you.

Your proposal would mean that nobody plays anyone in a lower class because you would be penalized for beating a school with 1 less person in their 3 year enrollment. If this is the case, than nobody is going to play up either...the higher class team won't schedule them.

It isn't as simple as you are making it out to be. I understand your heart is in the right place but it just isn't simple to rebuild scheduling or the point system. Doing either of these 2 things (or both) will create more problems than it will solve, and STILL may not get us any better group of teams in Lincoln.

 

[trackman77]

I will throw something out that I haven't seen mentioned on this link. I agree with some of the points that have been made but not sure I totally agree with the seeding of the top 16 or 32 and leaving everyone else out, and I'm not sure I agree with an "across the state" seeding format.
I believe that if you truly want to improve the overall competitive level through the sub-district and district levels of competition and eventually the State level that the item that needs overhauled is our classification system.
In my opinion we have activities that have too many classes and in sports like volleyball, basketball and yes even football we need to have at least one classification deleted and then realign all of the participating schools. I dont think that there is much doubt that the best in D-2 can compete with the best in D-1. As can the best in C-2 with C-1.
Just looking to hear some thoughts on something different.

 

[nenebskers]

I will throw something out that I haven't seen mentioned on this link. I agree with some of the points that have been made but not sure I totally agree with the seeding of the top 16 or 32 and leaving everyone else out, and I'm not sure I agree with an "across the state" seeding format.
I believe that if you truly want to improve the overall competitive level through the sub-district and district levels of competition and eventually the State level that the item that needs overhauled is our classification system.
In my opinion we have activities that have too many classes and in sports like volleyball, basketball and yes even football we need to have at least one classification deleted and then realign all of the participating schools. I dont think that there is much doubt that the best in D-2 can compete with the best in D-1. As can the best in C-2 with C-1.
Just looking to hear some thoughts on something different.

Spot on! The differance between the top teams is minimal. I would say that D2 overall is very week but the few top teams can compete with D1. I think our state fits a 4 class system for all sports but football but for most it is too much of a change. Maybe a five class system is possible down the road? The enrollment differences from the smallest to largest schools in each of D2, D1, and C2 is minimal. No reason those along with C1 couldnt become three classes or even two.

Also, very good point made earlier about conference affiliation. For example the Lewis & Clark and East Husker (Im sure many others as well) have teams that range from C1 to D2. It plays havoc on the strength of schedule. In these conferences if your a top team in C1 or C2 you often end up playing the first two rounds against two very poor D1 or D2 schools. These were not on your schedule but you get stuck with those games due to seeding. I have never understood why in high school athletics the conferences are so large. Wouldnt conferneces be best off with 8 or 10 schools? Why does the Lewis and Clark have 17 schools? Why does the Metro have 17 with Elkhorn South? Makes no sense to me.

Bottomline is if we ever went down to a four or five class system the powerpoint system would be improved a bit as a result. Flaws would still exist but there would be a lot less games played between schools from differant classes.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

I think you will see Sub-State format used in Class B this season implemented in Classes C-1 and C-2 next year. There are two proposals that will be up for vote from what I understand. One is to do the Sub-State thing in C-1 thru D-2. The other is to include only C-1/C-2. Could the criteria for passing the C-1/C-2 vote have been the result of the Wahoo/Ogallala game?

I don't believe that the Wahoo/Ogallala game had much to do with it. I believe that it's easier to adopt changes that are geographically sensitive by starting with Class A...the majority of schools are geographically closer. Class B while not as geographically dense, is moreso than Class C. It's a great way to introduce change.

I would like it to move into Class C next year.

 

[Norman Einstein]

Proposals up for possible adoption through the legislative process.

1. Fillmore Central

2. Boys Town

3. Oakland-Craig

4. Pierce

5. Wayne

6. Centura

Legislative votes in January 2018

C1-C2 only
Dist 1 Y (21) N (2) Abstain (23)
Dist 2 Y (55) N (0) Abstain (0)
Dist 3 Y (47) N (6) Abstain (0)
Dist 4 Y (22) N (23) Abstain (7)
Dist 5 Y (7) N (14) Abstain (1)
Dist 6 Y (12) N (15) Abstain (0)

C1-C2-D1-D2
Dist 1 Y (27) N (3) Abstain (16)
Dist 2 Y (54) N (0) Abstain (0)
Dist 3 Y (48) N (5) Abstain (0)
Dist 4 Y (17) N (28) Abstain (7)
Dist 5 Y (5) N (16) Abstain (1)
Dist 6 Y (5) N (22) Abstain (0)

 

[just_average32]

Districts 4, 5, 6 voted against? No way. I'm shocked.

 

[Yossarian23]

I think you will see Sub-State format used in Class B this season implemented in Classes C-1 and C-2 next year. There are two proposals that will be up for vote from what I understand. One is to do the Sub-State thing in C-1 thru D-2. The other is to include only C-1/C-2. Could the criteria for passing the C-1/C-2 vote have been the result of the Wahoo/Ogallala game?

No. That proposal was first voted on in November. During those votes, a district (districts?) amended it to include D1/D2...hence the two proposals existing right now.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Districts 4, 5, 6 voted against? No way. I'm shocked.

i wonder why the west districts voted NO, omg can they make it any more obvious that this scares them

 

[Trojanhorse13]

They are afraid that nobody from western Nebraska will ever get to the state tournament.

 

[Southernblood]

i wonder why the west districts voted NO, omg can they make it any more obvious that this scares them

From what I understand, their biggest concern is travel, not underrepresentation at state tournaments.

However IMO, they should look at this proactively that, yes, there will probably be years where they don't have anyone in Lincoln(or Omaha), but there might be others where they have multiple teams in a single class make runs to the tournament.

 

[runningback43]

From what I understand, their biggest concern is travel, not underrepresentation at state tournaments.

However IMO, they should look at this proactively that, yes, there will probably be years where they don't have anyone in Lincoln(or Omaha), but there might be others where they have multiple teams in a single class make runs to the tournament.

Travel is why I think they should use neutral sites. Play on a Friday or Saturday and then you don't have to worry about the kids getting home late and having to go to school the next day either. I just hope that the schools in this state will come up with another way to conduct the post season.

 

[nenebskers]

Travel is why I think they should use neutral sites. Play on a Friday or Saturday and then you don't have to worry about the kids getting home late and having to go to school the next day either. I just hope that the schools in this state will come up with another way to conduct the post season.

When would you schedule boy's substate with the girls state tournament taking place on Thursday-Saturday?

 

[runningback43]

This year the girls district finals were on February 23 which was a Friday for C1, C2, D1 and D2. The C1 and C2 boys played the following Monday. D1 and D2 boys played the following Tuesday. You could have substate for the girls on the same Friday and play substate boys on Saturday which would be the same day that Class B boys played their district final.

Semi-final round in football for A, B, C1 and C2 is on the same day as semi-finals for state volleyball. You could play the substate round for the boys on the same Friday as the girls state basketball tournament. I doubt very many people will like that though.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

i wonder why the west districts voted NO, omg can they make it any more obvious that this scares them

LOL. I know a lot of folks out there. They aren't scared of you, your kids team, or pretty much anything near as I can tell. LOL I'd say it has a lot more to do with context, priorities, and common sense than anything else. This was an imaginary problem that didn't need "fixed". Same thing you see in segments of government. Manufacture a crisis, gin up a "fix", then inconvenience everyone for the sake of very, very few. And those few won't even benefit beyond getting a first round loser T shirt. Ah, well...so be it.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

LOL. I know a lot of folks out there. They aren't scared of you, your kids team, or pretty much anything near as I can tell. LOL I'd say it has a lot more to do with context, priorities, and common sense than anything else. This was an imaginary problem that didn't need "fixed". Same thing you see in segments of government. Manufacture a crisis, gin up a "fix", then inconvenience everyone for the sake of very, very few. And those few won't even benefit beyond getting a first round loser T shirt. Ah, well...so be it.

Majority rules, so your not the majority and you lose, just going to have to get over it, passed 7-1. where was that one from

 

[hdendzonecam]

Combine this proposal with the new substate proposal from the NSAA and you've achieved what I think will be the best of both. Everyone gets a shot to go to state, and no one has to travel too much when the substate game is at a neutral site agreed upon by both schools. This proposal should be on the next ballot. Wrestling and baseball use a similar approach, this will eliminate subdistricts that have a bunch of rated teams, and rewards a successful season.

Clearly, due to costs and travel, the smaller schools cannot do a perfect serpentine like Class A does, but that doesn't mean we can't use a combination of schools earning a host site then filling in geographically.

The idea I would like to see used is that in classes C1-D2 the top 16 in Power Points by a certain date(this year Feb. 12 since subs begin Feb. 19) are designated as Sub-District/District/Regional hosts with the rest of the teams filled in by closest hosts, and yes some schools would have to travel past a host in order to fill in their district. Class B has 32 schools so just seed 1-32 and play it out from there.

For C2 boys, this would produce multiple hosts from 4 current subdistricts, including 3 from C2-4, C2-8, and C2-9. There would be 8 districts of 4 and 8 districts of 3.

If the postseason was decided today, it would look like this:

C2-1 @ Ponca
Ponca (20-1), 46.4762
Hartington Cedar Catholic
Hartington-Newcastle
Crofton

C2-2 @ Elmwood-Murdock
Elmwood-Murdock (16-2), 45.9444
Omaha Brownell-Talbott
Archbishop Bergan

C2-3 @ Arcadia-Loup City
Arcadia-Loup City (17-1), 45.8333
North Platte St. Patrick's
Maxwell
Burwell

C2-4 @ Yutan
Yutan (17-1), 45.7222
Howells-Dodge
Oakland-Craig

C2-5 @ South Loup
South Loup (16-1), 45.2941
Bayard
Bridgeport
Hemingford
Kimball

C2-6 @ Hastings St. Cecilia
Hastings St. Cecilia (16-3), 45.1579
Sandy Creek
Superior

C2-7 @ BRLD
BRLD (18-2), 44.9000
Omaha Nation
Homer

C2-8 @ Freeman
Freeman (16-5), 44.7143
Southern
Palmyra

C2-9 @ Ravenna
Ravenna (15-4), 44.5263
Southern Valley
Southwest
Cambridge

C2-10 @ Centennial
Centennial (18-2), 44.3000
Shelby-Rising City
Cross County

C2-11 @ Battle Creek
Battle Creek (14-5), 44.1053
Creighton
Neligh-Oakdale
Ainsworth

C2-12 @ Lutheran High Northeast
Lutheran High Northeast (14-4), 43.5556
Stanton
Twin River
Niobrara

C2-13 @ Doniphan-Trumbull
Doniphan-Trumbull (12-7), 43.3158
Amherst
Centura
Nebraska Christian

C2-14 @ Dundy County-Stratton
Dundy County-Stratton (15-5), 43.2500
Maxwell
Perkins County
Sutherland

C2-15 @ Wisner-Pilger
Wisner-Pilger (14-6), 43.2500
Wakefield
Laurel-Concord

C2-16 @ Sutton
Sutton (13-7), 43.2000
Thayer Central
Fillmore Central

District/Regional/Sub-State/Whatever Finals
C2-1 vs C2-16
C2-2 vs C2-15
C2-3 vs C2-14
C2-4 vs C2-13
C2-5 vs C2-12
C2-6 vs C2-11
C2-7 vs C2-10
C2-8 vs C2-9

 

[northeastNebraska]

Good discussion. Bumping so it doesn’t get lost.