Thoughts....

[ClkTwr2011]

"If Amherst doesn't want to play Class A, then DON'T ALLOW ATHLETIC TRANSFERS THAT RESIDE WITHIN THE KEARNEY SCHOOL DISTRICT!"

Again this is the major flaw I see. Probably 95%+ of option enrolles are not primarily for athletic purposes. I would guess that almost nearly every public school in the state has an option enrolled kid in their district, many of who play sports. If your proposed idea would take place almost no school would have their current enrollment number. What would all this number transfering around accomplish?

I keep coming back to the example of elementary aged school kids. For example....A kindergartner lives on the very east edge of the Norfolk school district. 5 years earlier his parents bought their dream home on a nice acreage 15 miles from Norfolk Public and 12 miles from Winside but is in the Norfolk district. His parents grew up in Winside and all of the parents social network is still in Winside. In addition both sets of grandparents live in Winside and one set is fully retired and help with after school daycare. Mom stays home with the other kids and dad works at the hardware store in Winside. The family prefers a small school to a large school. To this family Winside makes perfect sense and they option enroll their kindergartner. Fast foward 9 years and their son is now a 5'8 130 lb freshman who plays on special teams for the varsity but the vast majority of playing time is on the JV. Because of this player Winside is now Class A because they accepted an "athletic transfer"?

Not saying "athletic transfers" dont happen but dont completely blow everything up for a small piece of the pie. Exceptions are exceptions not the rule.

And maybe this type of scenario is accounted for within the Classification System. Maybe the "combined enrollment" only applies to kids that opt across after the 6th grade? I still believe that this type of system (or close variation) is worth some conversation.

Also existing within the American Legion Baseball classification system is a mutual consent release agreement between coaches. If a coach for one team agrees to release a player to another team, then there is no harm and no foul. In my mind, this type of release would allow for the 5'8" 130 pound freshmen player that MOST LIKELY would not even be playing if enrolled at Norfolk High.

We can find situations in which ANY system is not fair. I simply believe that unless change comes about, we are going to see a complete disaster as far as the "athletic transfer".

 

[runningback43]

The Legion baseball classification idea is not something that we need for the NSAA. I've dealt with the Legion baseball people when hosting state tournaments. Just not a fan of how they do things.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

The Legion baseball classification idea is not something that we need for the NSAA. I've dealt with the Legion baseball people when hosting state tournaments. Just not a fan of how they do things.

What is it about the way that they do things that you are not a fan of? Why do you not agree with their methods of defining player eligibility and team classification?

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

Are you even TRYING to understand how the Legion Baseball classification system works? Where in the scenario that I put out there do you get Amherst being a Class A school? Amherst has a 3 year enrollment of 85 students. The smallest Class A School is 900. The only way Amherst goes to Class A is if a student from Kearney enrolls in their school AND participates in sports. Again, Academic Exemption. If Amherst doesn't want to play Class A, then DON'T ALLOW ATHLETIC TRANSFERS THAT RESIDE WITHIN THE KEARNEY SCHOOL DISTRICT! If High Plains school system doesn't want to play Class B Boys Basketball, then DON'T ALLOW A KID THAT RESIDES IN THE AURORA SCHOOL DISTRICT TO PLAY BASKETBALL!

Legion Baseball's Classification system is HARDLY a "fairly flawed Club Sport criteria". Many states have actually merged High School Baseball with Legion Baseball, and the player eligibility and Classification that these States use is in fact the Legion Baseball's "fairly flawed Club Sports criteria". They use it because it works.

The opt down is and always will be a participation based reclassification. It is in place for 11 Man football schools that can't fill an 11 Man roster...or 8 Man that can't fill an 8 Man roster. An 11 Man Class B football team can't opt down to being an 11 Man Class C-2 team. I am not sure where you are coming from there.

This is just conversation anyway. We all know that the NSAA isn't going to change anything. The athletic directors that have a voice don't want to change it. The don't want to piss off the AD up the road from them. They are perfectly happy with the way things are.

You do understand that well over 50% of the kids at Amherst come from inside the Kearney School District, right? Maxwell has something like 70% of it's kids coming from North Platte. Someone can correct those numbers, if they are off, but I've told those by staff members. Why should a C1/C2 have to opt all the way to 8 man? If a school can't fill a class A roster they should be able to choose which class to compete in, right? Or does your New Class A Hershey and St Pats, Malcolm, any school near Omaha, say Platteview now get to really drill the (actual) small schools? Worse, you are punishing any student who wants to be in a smaller setting and would not be able to compete in a Class A school. Banner County has a student from both the Gering and Kimball districts, say, is the team that can barely field a team expected to compete in Class A? Or better yet, refuse to allow a kid the memories that come from High School Sports? The longer you explain this the worse the idea looks...just saying.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

"If Amherst doesn't want to play Class A, then DON'T ALLOW ATHLETIC TRANSFERS THAT RESIDE WITHIN THE KEARNEY SCHOOL DISTRICT!"

Again this is the major flaw I see. Probably 95%+ of option enrolles are not primarily for athletic purposes. I would guess that almost nearly every public school in the state has an option enrolled kid in their district, many of who play sports. If your proposed idea would take place almost no school would have their current enrollment number. What would all this number transfering around accomplish?

I keep coming back to the example of elementary aged school kids. For example....A kindergartner lives on the very east edge of the Norfolk school district. 5 years earlier his parents bought their dream home on a nice acreage 15 miles from Norfolk Public and 12 miles from Winside but is in the Norfolk district. His parents grew up in Winside and all of the parents social network is still in Winside. In addition both sets of grandparents live in Winside and one set is fully retired and help with after school daycare. Mom stays home with the other kids and dad works at the hardware store in Winside. The family prefers a small school to a large school. To this family Winside makes perfect sense and they option enroll their kindergartner. Fast foward 9 years and their son is now a 5'8 130 lb freshman who plays on special teams for the varsity but the vast majority of playing time is on the JV. Because of this player Winside is now Class A because they accepted an "athletic transfer"?

Not saying "athletic transfers" dont happen but dont completely blow everything up for a small piece of the pie. Exceptions are exceptions not the rule.

And neighboring kids drag Wayne, LHNE, Laurel Concord, Wakefield, and all the rest to class A. I've been told that 5 or 6 nearby Districts run busses out of North Platte. Boom. All Class A, I guess... Maybe we would enjoy the look on the faces of the parents of the mildy mentally handicapped student who attend Hemingford because no road goes directly to Alliance that he can't be on the roster because it would make Hemingford Class B.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

You do understand that well over 50% of the kids at Amherst come from inside the Kearney School District, right? Maxwell has something like 70% of it's kids coming from North Platte. Someone can correct those numbers, if they are off, but I've told those by staff members. Why should a C1/C2 have to opt all the way to 8 man? If a school can't fill a class A roster they should be able to choose which class to compete in, right? Or does your New Class A Hershey and St Pats, Malcolm, any school near Omaha, say Platteview now get to really drill the (actual) small schools? Worse, you are punishing any student who wants to be in a smaller setting and would not be able to compete in a Class A school. Banner County has a student from both the Gering and Kimball districts, say, is the team that can barely field a team expected to compete in Class A? Or better yet, refuse to allow a kid the memories that come from High School Sports? The longer you explain this the worse the idea looks...just saying.

Again, I have repeatedly said that the American Legion Baseball classification system (or a close variation) is worth some conversation. Maybe there is a 2 class reclassification maximum in place? I don't know the exact details, and I don't know (or care) where the Amherst student body comes from. What I care about is the fact that there are schools that are benefiting from the "athletic transfer", and there are schools that are being hindered by these "athletic transfers" leaving their school.

As I said in a previous post, do you really think that the coach at Kearney High is going to have a problem signing a transfer agreement for a 5'6" 120 pound Freshmen that wouldn't even participate at Kearney High if he had no other Football options? I seriously doubt it. There are rules in place to prevent a kid that wants to play being denied the opportunity. You and I both know that the problem is not little Johnny that would never see the field in Class B. The problem is little Jimmy that doesn't WANT to play for his hometown that has little or no tradition and poor participation numbers so he transfers to become a year starter up the road.

C1 Winnebago plays 8 Man football. C1 David City High seriously considered doing the same thing next year but are now negotiating a Coop with Aquinas. Many of these schools have serious participation problems, and simply can't field teams otherwise. Neligh Oakdale was a rare exception in football this year. Most of these opt down teams are really not competitive even AFTER they opt down.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

And neighboring kids drag Wayne, LHNE, Laurel Concord, Wakefield, and all the rest to class A. I've been told that 5 or 6 nearby Districts run busses out of North Platte. Boom. All Class A, I guess... Maybe we would enjoy the look on the faces of the parents of the mildy mentally handicapped student who attend Hemingford because no road goes directly to Alliance that he can't be on the roster because it would make Hemingford Class B.

Or maybe this kid has been going to school at Hemingford his entire life, and the "athletic transfer" reclassification only applies when kids transfer after their 6th grade year.

We can all find isolated examples of why our existing system is broken, why our existing system is perfect, and the same thing for any proposed changes.

Some people will look at an issue and give all the reasons why an idea WON'T work. Others look at the same idea and give all the reasons why it WILL work. It is a mindset as much as anything.

As I have followed and interacted with you on this forum, I have many times wondered where you live and which school you consider to be "your school". Maybe if I know, your perspective on many of these issues would make much more sense to me.

 

[huskerfan1414]

It wont pass and none of the complainers will like it because its fair. Public school will cry they cant control who comes in there district even though we know 90% of the kids who open enrolling are doing for some form of sport or NSAA activity and you only count those who play that sport or activity and private schools know they are going up one or as many as three classes, because they sit in larger areas and have a greater pool to choose from or they get kids from 3 to 5 different towns. Everyone wants their cake and wants to eat also.

Heres the thing though, we only see the students that play sports and assume thats all the open enrollment students or that all private school students transfer for athletics. You dont know that because we dont watch math class.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Ya actually, there wouldn't really be a reason to put a 2 Class maximum increase in effect. Academic opportunities will not be effected whatsoever.

Ultimately, this issue is one in which I take very serious. For me, it isn't about the sports. It's about the slap in the face these families give the communities which they reside in. If our school isn't good enough for you, then why don't you move yourself and your family into a community that IS good enough for you. A school, a American Legion club, a church, and a community should be a source of pride. Community members should invest in these things and make a difference. We should effect change. We shouldn't abandon them for greener grasses.

You dont mess around when it comes to the well being of your children just to make other people happy. Some kids that opt out are probably stuck in failing schools or small dying schools that refuse to merge.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Are you even TRYING to understand how the Legion Baseball classification system works? Where in the scenario that I put out there do you get Amherst being a Class A school? Amherst has a 3 year enrollment of 85 students. The smallest Class A School is 900. The only way Amherst goes to Class A is if a student from Kearney enrolls in their school AND participates in sports. Again, Academic Exemption. If Amherst doesn't want to play Class A, then DON'T ALLOW ATHLETIC TRANSFERS THAT RESIDE WITHIN THE KEARNEY SCHOOL DISTRICT! If High Plains school system doesn't want to play Class B Boys Basketball, then DON'T ALLOW A KID THAT RESIDES IN THE AURORA SCHOOL DISTRICT TO PLAY BASKETBALL!

Legion Baseball's Classification system is HARDLY a "fairly flawed Club Sport criteria". Many states have actually merged High School Baseball with Legion Baseball, and the player eligibility and Classification that these States use is in fact the Legion Baseball's "fairly flawed Club Sports criteria". They use it because it works.

The opt down is and always will be a participation based reclassification. It is in place for 11 Man football schools that can't fill an 11 Man roster...or 8 Man that can't fill an 8 Man roster. An 11 Man Class B football team can't opt down to being an 11 Man Class C-2 team. I am not sure where you are coming from there.

This is just conversation anyway. We all know that the NSAA isn't going to change anything. The athletic directors that have a voice don't want to change it. The don't want to piss off the AD up the road from them. They are perfectly happy with the way things are.

Or they realize that this plan is awful. Im sorry but of all the things ive heard this makes the least sense.

 

[runningback43]

What is it about the way that they do things that you are not a fan of? Why do you not agree with their methods of defining player eligibility and team classification?

One of the things I don't like is the fact that a few years ago a team in western Nebraska was full of kids from Colorado. That team I believe went on to win a state championship in Nebraska Legion baseball. There are a lot of towns that somehow get around the rules that the Legion has in place and they do nothing about it. Personally I wish the NSAA would run summer baseball in this state similar to how Iowa does it.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

One of the things I don't like is the fact that a few years ago a team in western Nebraska was full of kids from Colorado. That team I believe went on to win a state championship in Nebraska Legion baseball. There are a lot of towns that somehow get around the rules that the Legion has in place and they do nothing about it. Personally I wish the NSAA would run summer baseball in this state similar to how Iowa does it.

I couldn't agree more! I believe that High School sports is killing baseball. The demands are so great that so many kids just give up baseball in order to handle the requirements of off season workouts and HS sports camps. I believe baseball would thrive if it became a school sport, even in the small communities. I have brought this up with several members of the Athletic Committee over the past few years. There seems to be some type of disconnect between the NSAA and the Nebraska Legion Baseball Athletic Committee. I really have never received what I consider to be a good answer as to why this would not work.

I don't know the details surrounding a team from western Nebraska that had Colorado players. I looked back about 10 years, and didn't see a State Champion in Class C or Class B. However, that doesn't mean that this team didn't finish 3rd, so your point is still valid. The thing is, Legion Baseball looks for ways for all players to be allowed to participate even if these players are in an area that has tryouts and the given player doesn't make the local team. Legion Baseball with actually HELP these kids find a team to play for and they will not penalize the team that opens their roster to accept these kids.
I know that this type of system seems as if it would never work, but again...some conversation and Q&A could prove this to be a viable option.

 

[dogs 93]

I couldn't agree more! I believe that High School sports is killing baseball. The demands are so great that so many kids just give up baseball in order to handle the requirements of off season workouts and HS sports camps. I believe baseball would thrive if it became a school sport, even in the small communities. I have brought this up with several members of the Athletic Committee over the past few years. There seems to be some type of disconnect between the NSAA and the Nebraska Legion Baseball Athletic Committee. I really have never received what I consider to be a good answer as to why this would not work.

I don't know the details surrounding a team from western Nebraska that had Colorado players. I looked back about 10 years, and didn't see a State Champion in Class C or Class B. However, that doesn't mean that this team didn't finish 3rd, so your point is still valid. The thing is, Legion Baseball looks for ways for all players to be allowed to participate even if these players are in an area that has tryouts and the given player doesn't make the local team. Legion Baseball with actually HELP these kids find a team to play for and they will not penalize the team that opens their roster to accept these kids.
I know that this type of system seems as if it would never work, but again...some conversation and Q&A could prove this to be a viable option.

I remember the problem with the American Legion. The team name was bombers don't remember the town they used in Nebraska but, they only had one kid from Nebraska on the team and he was on the bench. one of the teams protested the game and the rule change the next year. If I remember right if the team is made up of more kids from one town they have to use the enrollment from that town. Example if Amherst has more kids from the Kearney school district on the wrestling team they would be considered a Class A school or they take 10% of Kearney enrollment if the majority of the kids are from Amherst. The American Legion rule has some good points to it. As many have stated why punish the kids. I say why punish the teams that are made up of one town and are truly in that classification. I don't know if that is still the American Legion rule or not.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

I remember the problem with the American Legion. The team name was bombers don't remember the town they used in Nebraska but, they only had one kid from Nebraska on the team and he was on the bench. one of the teams protested the game and the rule change the next year. If I remember right if the team is made up of more kids from one town they have to use the enrollment from that town. Example if Amherst has more kids from the Kearney school district on the wrestling team they would be considered a Class A school or they take 10% of Kearney enrollment if the majority of the kids are from Amherst. The American Legion rule has some good points to it. As many have stated why punish the kids. I say why punish the teams that are made up of one town and are truly in that classification. I don't know if that is still the American Legion rule or not.

I spoke with one of the Committee members from Nebraska American Legion Baseball yesterday. He told me that there was a team years ago that had some out of state kids. He didn't give me the specifics on the numbers, but did tell me he was the Committee member that told that team they couldn't do what they were trying to do. Long and short of it is there was some degree of accuracy to the statement.

I was informed that there are Classification rule changes coming this upcoming season due to some "working of the system" by some of the Legion teams. The mutual consent rule in Legion Baseball basically says that if a coach from Base School A agrees to allow a player from that team to play for Base School B, then there is no Classification changes made. The problem is that FOR EXAMPLE a group of Norfolk Catholic students want to play Legion Baseball for Battle Creek, because they live in Battle Creek. Norfolk coaches grant the Mutual Consent ruling and sign these players off. Now this group of players that would have been playing Class A are running wild through their Class C schedule.

I know that no system is perfect, but the thing I like about the Legion Baseball philosophy is that they don't want teams taking advantage of loop holes. If there is a loop hole, they close it up the next season.