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Thoughts....

Instead of dividing school I would use enrollment cut off numbers
Class A 849 and up
Class B 280 to 848
class C 139 to 279
Class D 138 below 11-man
8-Man 1 94 to 60
8-man 2 59 and below
This would be for Public, I would let Private set there own classes and cut offs
So now you have 7 classes for Public Schools (You left out 6 man) and what 3? 4? 5 for private schools? If your treasured success factor is in place, the Crofton Girls BB could play Columbus in a District game? Or, as is obvious, once the Christian schools are weeded out their is no more need for a "success" factor? Finally, someone is willing to tell the truth. Thank you.
 
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I would hate to see schools punished for success and I would hate to separate public and parochial schools. There is absolutely no reason to make Class D schools jump to 11 man or Class C schools jump to class B based on the huge enrollment differences between those levels. However, participation numbers are quite different at most parochial schools and the reported enrollment, as well as the flexibility to control that number, is what classification is based on.

I would personally like to see parochial schools not be in the top 5-10 in enrollment in their class size. This would affect very few schools and would help keep both sides of the argument happy. If this were the rule, it actually wouldn't have changed this 2 year cycle with the exception of Lincoln Lutheran depending on where you cut it off at. It would however potentially keep some teams from being one of the biggest C-2 schools by dropping their enrollment by fewer than 5 kids. It doesn't punish anyone for being successful, but it does take away some opportunity to be creative with your enrollment.

If there are holes in this idea, I would be glad to hear them.
 
I would hate to see schools punished for success and I would hate to separate public and parochial schools. There is absolutely no reason to make Class D schools jump to 11 man or Class C schools jump to class B based on the huge enrollment differences between those levels. However, participation numbers are quite different at most parochial schools and the reported enrollment, as well as the flexibility to control that number, is what classification is based on.

I would personally like to see parochial schools not be in the top 5-10 in enrollment in their class size. This would affect very few schools and would help keep both sides of the argument happy. If this were the rule, it actually wouldn't have changed this 2 year cycle with the exception of Lincoln Lutheran depending on where you cut it off at. It would however potentially keep some teams from being one of the biggest C-2 schools by dropping their enrollment by fewer than 5 kids. It doesn't punish anyone for being successful, but it does take away some opportunity to be creative with your enrollment.

If there are holes in this idea, I would be glad to hear them.
I guess Omaha Concordia/Omaha Street would have been affected also.
 
Looking at it Class A could start at 800 and Class B could go 799 to 299 Class C 298 to 150 and class D 149 and below 8-Man 1 could go 100 to 65 and 8-man 2 64 and below
I agree that A is too small. I think 32, if not 36, would dramatically help Class B. I realize that you do see numbers discrepancy, but with a 750 number, it's really 1,000 kids, say 500 boys, and you OUGHT to be able to field a competitive team with 500 boys 9-12. The smaller the school, the more the discrepancy matters, IMO. I.E. 75 compared to 150 is a LOT more uphill battle than 1000 compared to 2k. Again, my opinion.
 
I agree that A is too small. I think 32, if not 36, would dramatically help Class B. I realize that you do see numbers discrepancy, but with a 750 number, it's really 1,000 kids, say 500 boys, and you OUGHT to be able to field a competitive team with 500 boys 9-12. The smaller the school, the more the discrepancy matters, IMO. I.E. 75 compared to 150 is a LOT more uphill battle than 1000 compared to 2k. Again, my opinion.
That would be a good starting point. Class A 750 and up does that set with everyone, Thoughts?
 
I would hate to see schools punished for success and I would hate to separate public and parochial schools. There is absolutely no reason to make Class D schools jump to 11 man or Class C schools jump to class B based on the huge enrollment differences between those levels. However, participation numbers are quite different at most parochial schools and the reported enrollment, as well as the flexibility to control that number, is what classification is based on.

I would personally like to see parochial schools not be in the top 5-10 in enrollment in their class size. This would affect very few schools and would help keep both sides of the argument happy. If this were the rule, it actually wouldn't have changed this 2 year cycle with the exception of Lincoln Lutheran depending on where you cut it off at. It would however potentially keep some teams from being one of the biggest C-2 schools by dropping their enrollment by fewer than 5 kids. It doesn't punish anyone for being successful, but it does take away some opportunity to be creative with your enrollment.

If there are holes in this idea, I would be glad to hear them.
You think a school would turn down $50-75K to stay in C2? I don't. I know my kids school is very aware of those cut lines from past years and not every option enrollment gets accepted. And there IS a priority system in place that is never, ever spoken of. I think our school, and other public schools are in a far better place to control enrollment than a parochial school which needs every single penny.
 
That would be a good starting point. Class A 750 and up does that set with everyone, Thoughts?

I feel that our state tournaments are getting watered down, especially at the lower levels due to the state having the same classifications from the early 80's but about 100 less schools. I would love to have a 4 class system (5 for football) but realsitically we are more suited for a 5 class system (6 for football) since we are so bottom heavy in enrollments throughout the state. Maybe in 25+ years as consolidations continue to take place we will get to the point where a four class system is more likely.

My thoughts have always been top 36 in A and next 36 in B. Divide the rest accordingly and have 8 man cutoff be around 105 but freely allow schools to opt up to 11 man if desired. Basically allow schools in that 85-105 range to choose.

As far as class A goes Elkhorn South, Elkhorn, Gretna, Columbus, Hastings, South Sioux, Pius, Ralston, etc....can fit in with Class A just fine. Sure South Sioux will struggle mightly in football but were not trying to achieve .500 records for everyone. Will South Sioux soccer and girls basketball be one of the best in Class A? Of course. Thats just part of sports.

As far as class B having 36 as well I think it works fine. Once you get the large enrollments out of B (ala Gretna, Columbus, Scottsbluff, etc) the enrollments drop off pretty quickly with the majority being in that 300-500 range. Schools like Wayne, Wahoo, Cozad, Gothenburg, etc...would fit in just fine with York, Seward, Waverly, etc...

Keep in mind that most of these schools listed above have been in the class above at some point in time over the last 20-25 years. Essentially it was newly built or growing Omaha and Lincoln public schools like Lincoln Southwest and Papio South that has forced everyone to move down.

For sports outside of football I think the less classes we have helps clean up some of the issues we have with powerpoints

Last thought is to use girls only and boys only enrollments. Could be wrong but I feel that is something that everyone unanamiosuly agrees with.

Ok, your turn. Tell me what parts I've got it right and where I'm totally wrong.
 
I feel that our state tournaments are getting watered down, especially at the lower levels due to the state having the same classifications from the early 80's but about 100 less schools. I would love to have a 4 class system (5 for football) but realsitically we are more suited for a 5 class system (6 for football) since we are so bottom heavy in enrollments throughout the state. Maybe in 25+ years as consolidations continue to take place we will get to the point where a four class system is more likely.

My thoughts have always been top 36 in A and next 36 in B. Divide the rest accordingly and have 8 man cutoff be around 105 but freely allow schools to opt up to 11 man if desired. Basically allow schools in that 85-105 range to choose.

As far as class A goes Elkhorn South, Elkhorn, Gretna, Columbus, Hastings, South Sioux, Pius, Ralston, etc....can fit in with Class A just fine. Sure South Sioux will struggle mightly in football but were not trying to achieve .500 records for everyone. Will South Sioux soccer and girls basketball be one of the best in Class A? Of course. Thats just part of sports.

As far as class B having 36 as well I think it works fine. Once you get the large enrollments out of B (ala Gretna, Columbus, Scottsbluff, etc) the enrollments drop off pretty quickly with the majority being in that 300-500 range. Schools like Wayne, Wahoo, Cozad, Gothenburg, etc...would fit in just fine with York, Seward, Waverly, etc...

Keep in mind that most of these schools listed above have been in the class above at some point in time over the last 20-25 years. Essentially it was newly built or growing Omaha and Lincoln public schools like Lincoln Southwest and Papio South that has forced everyone to move down.

For sports outside of football I think the less classes we have helps clean up some of the issues we have with powerpoints

Last thought is to use girls only and boys only enrollments. Could be wrong but I feel that is something that everyone unanamiosuly agrees with.

Ok, your turn. Tell me what parts I've got it right and where I'm totally wrong.
Some really good points
 
I have always agreed on using the girls and boys only enrollment for sports. A girl heavy class could affect the number of boys able to go out for football and put a school at a disadvantage fielding enough boys for the class they're in.
 
I'm not sure what the solution is but I think nenebskers has some excellent points. Track and wrestling seem to get along fine with the 4 class system so no reason to think that eliminating a Class wouldn't be a decent option. It's funny that people have these complicated ideas but yet maybe the simplest is the best option.
 
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Ok, how about this.

One Class. One State Champion. The end.
Schedule is based upon enrollment number. 10 Largest Schools play each other in football, Next 10 Play each other, Next 10 Play each other. Split east/west to limit travel or whatever.

Basketball, Largest 18 Play each other, Next 18 Play each other, Next 18 play each other...again, split east/west to limit travel or whatever.

Now it is time for post season. Largest enrollment champion (determined by regular season record) plays the second largest enrollment. 3rd Largest enrollment champion plays 4th Largest enrollment champion...all the way down to the smallest. Pretty soon, you get down to 8 teams left, and they head to Lincoln for a State Tournament.

All of this conversation is really nothing more that everyone arguing over class size so that we can figure out how to give away more championship trophies. So that everyone can get the chance to be a champion. We are fighting over the verbiage that should be associated with a State Title..."So, this trophy goes to the team that is clearly nowhere close to the best basketball team in the state...UNLESS...we only look at the schools that have between 90 and 65 students in them, in which case they are the best team in the state. It is worth mentioning that last year this team would have been in the group of teams between 120 and 90 students but because little Timmy was bullied so badly his family opted him into the school up the road which in essence is the reason that this team is now considered the best team in the State...for teams that have between 90 and 65 students enrolled that is."

My point is, no matter what system is used it will not be perfect. We could turn the current system upside down, and continue this argument 3 years from now. Nothing would change.

I know that there are very few in favor of using a success factor to classify schools, but I am honestly very much in favor of this system. I mentioned several pages back what my experience has been with ASA Softball and their reclassification system. It sucked at first, but I gained an understanding and appreciation for it. This is why, and you can agree or disagree:

As soon as these kids leave our education system, they are all in Class A. Make no mistake, nobody cares where you grew up and how big your community is. You are now in Class A. You will be competing with everyone, like it or not. You will not be awarded a promotion because you are from a smaller community nor will you peer group consist of only others from similar sized communities or businesses. It is 1 Class and 1 Class only. Your level of ability and success are what will determine your ceiling. It should be an honor to move up, not a punishment.
 
No way a one class system would work. You have to remember we are in the get a trophy and medal for participating era.
 
Frankly, this sounds like something from the 1980's. Tired, old, innuendo. Ever hear of open enrollemnt? How many kids attending, say, Amherst are from outside their district? I've heard that Maxwell has something like 70%(!) of their students from outside their district. I'm sure with all of this "full disclosure" that not only will I see which kids are classified SPED, but which ones are claimed to be free/reduced lunch by the reporting schools, ultimately we'll see which kids at public schools come from outside the district. As for kids picking private schools "most of them" are choosing for what their parents feel is a better education, higher expectations, and a faith-based environment. Further, I would suggest that the ratio, per capita, of public school kids playing at the next level, is every bit as high as those of the private school kids. So...parents pay tens of thousands of dollars for no real increase of the possibilities of playing college ball? I'm a product of public schools and fully invested in them, but this cry-baby business is just plain goofy. Before open enrollment there might have been a point to the whining. With it? None. Everybody recruits. Only difference is public schools do it with taxpayer funds.

I have coached at both public and private schools. As recently as two years ago we played a team (we are public) where ONE starter was from the community housing the catholic school. They took the best athletes from all the communities around, and those kids went there for one reason...and it was not for the drama club. What I say is true.
 
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I have coached at both public and private schools. As recently as two years ago we played a team (we are public) where ONE starter was from the community housing the catholic school. They took the best athletes from all the communities around, and those kids went there for one reason...and it was not for the drama club. What I say is true.

Milo, I agree with what you are saying.

I know that the defenders always say "give us a name, give us a school".

You are a coach, and have experience with this on a first hand level. I appreciate you weighing in on this with a perspective that is not up for debate.

On this same general subject, this is not exclusive to private schools. We played North Bend Central in basketball this year. They have a video presentation that is playing before the games that does player introductions. They have multiple players from Fremont, a Cedar Bluff player, Dodge player...and those are just the the few I recall. Additionally, Winnebago has done the same thing the past few years. These schools are adapting to the system that we have in place, and in my opinion are to be commended for that.

We are in a time in which this type of player migration has become the "normal". I personally believe that it is time to stop complaining about it and jump on board. It is now time to get on the recruiting bandwagon and go out and get the players that your program wants. It is all fair game and the programs that do well going into the future are the programs that embrace the current landscape rather than fight it.
 
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Milo, I agree with what you are saying.

I know that the defenders always say "give us a name, give us a school".

You are a coach, and have experience with this on a first hand level. I appreciate you weighing in on this with a perspective that is not up for debate.

On this same general subject, this is not exclusive to private schools. We played North Bend Central in basketball this year. They have a video presentation that is playing before the games that does player introductions. They have multiple players from Fremont, a Cedar Bluff player, Dodge player...and those are just the the few I recall. Additionally, Winnebago has done the same thing the past few years. These schools are adapting to the system that we have in place, and in my opinion are to be commended for that.

We are in a time in which this type of player migration has become the "normal". I personally believe that it is time to stop complaining about it and jump on board. It is now time to get on the recruiting bandwagon and go out and get the players that your program wants. It is all fair game and the programs that do well going into the future are the programs that embrace the current landscape rather than fight it.

It happens at public schools too, think Seward, but almost always happens at a private school. While I was coaching at a Catholic school, we had students from other denominations enrolled. The inside joke was that we would bring in Muslims if they could tackle. I thought North Bend has consolidated with some of the surrounding towns for sports, maybe I am mistaken.

Ethics is my reasoning for opposing recruiting. It hurts schools and communities when the best athletes leave. I don't think the feeding frenzy would be a good thing.
 
It happens at public schools too, think Seward, but almost always happens at a private school. While I was coaching at a Catholic school, we had students from other denominations enrolled. The inside joke was that we would bring in Muslims if they could tackle. I thought North Bend has consolidated with some of the surrounding towns for sports, maybe I am mistaken.

Ethics is my reasoning for opposing recruiting. It hurts schools and communities when the best athletes leave. I don't think the feeding frenzy would be a good thing.

I agree that the recruiting is not the best thing, but until it gets out of control nothing will be changed. Change WILL occur once the situations dictate it. Right now we have a competitive advantage for programs that are doing this. As soon as it becomes a feeding frenzy the rules will be changed. It will become impossible to police so the rules will simply be changed and schools will start to be drastically re-classified.

Just my opinion, and I respect your ethics regarding this.

Thank you for sharing your opinions.
 
I have coached at both public and private schools. As recently as two years ago we played a team (we are public) where ONE starter was from the community housing the catholic school. They took the best athletes from all the communities around, and those kids went there for one reason...and it was not for the drama club. What I say is true.
Where is that? I know Public schools very much like that. I'm sure there are Private Schools as well. What school are you referring to?
 
Milo, I agree with what you are saying.

I know that the defenders always say "give us a name, give us a school".

You are a coach, and have experience with this on a first hand level. I appreciate you weighing in on this with a perspective that is not up for debate.

On this same general subject, this is not exclusive to private schools. We played North Bend Central in basketball this year. They have a video presentation that is playing before the games that does player introductions. They have multiple players from Fremont, a Cedar Bluff player, Dodge player...and those are just the the few I recall. Additionally, Winnebago has done the same thing the past few years. These schools are adapting to the system that we have in place, and in my opinion are to be commended for that.

We are in a time in which this type of player migration has become the "normal". I personally believe that it is time to stop complaining about it and jump on board. It is now time to get on the recruiting bandwagon and go out and get the players that your program wants. It is all fair game and the programs that do well going into the future are the programs that embrace the current landscape rather than fight it.
Of course people will ask. Without proof it's just quite possibly a pack of lies. Perhaps exaggeration. Maybe Gospel Truth. Whatever the case, "perspective" means nothing, to anyone, without context. And yes, Open Enrollment has led to recruiting for everyone. And essentially, with State Aid, the public schools also benefit from "tuition" brought in by option students. IMO, the one, and only advantage private schools had was erased by open enrollement.
 
Of course people will ask. Without proof it's just quite possibly a pack of lies. Perhaps exaggeration. Maybe Gospel Truth. Whatever the case, "perspective" means nothing, to anyone, without context. And yes, Open Enrollment has led to recruiting for everyone. And essentially, with State Aid, the public schools also benefit from "tuition" brought in by option students. IMO, the one, and only advantage private schools had was erased by open enrollement.
But your forgetting about the schools that have no way to bring in students, the nearest district maybe 20 or 30 miles, I believe open enrollment has decreased the advantage that private school had by a lot and leveled the field, in the C1 and up schools but in the lower classes not so much at all. As most of the private schools in the C2 and down classes set in areas often triple the pool to choose from as the public school in that class, I still say the best and fairest system would be to use a system similar to legion baseball for classification. Taking the population of the city or town that every player on the team comes from and create a classification system. This would leave no one any room to complain PUBLIC or Private. If you have kids from 5 different cities or your town and one large city you take a percentage of that population on your count. Classification based on available pool of students you have to draw from that attend your school and play that sport.
 
But your forgetting about the schools that have no way to bring in students, the nearest district maybe 20 or 30 miles, I believe open enrollment has decreased the advantage that private school had by a lot and leveled the field, in the C1 and up schools but in the lower classes not so much at all. As most of the private schools in the C2 and down classes set in areas often triple the pool to choose from as the public school in that class, I still say the best and fairest system would be to use a system similar to legion baseball for classification. Taking the population of the city or town that every player on the team comes from and create a classification system. This would leave no one any room to complain PUBLIC or Private. If you have kids from 5 different cities or your town and one large city you take a percentage of that population on your count. Classification based on available pool of students you have to draw from that attend your school and play that sport.

YOU ARE RIGHT! I wrote a post over a year ago about exactly this!

If you take a player from the town up the road, you take their entire enrollment to the classification meeting! I don't have even the slightest idea why this has not been adopted. Sure I realize that in the metro areas it won't help, but it darn sure will everywhere else.
 
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YOU ARE RIGHT! I wrote a post over a year ago about exactly this!

If you take a player from the town up the road, you take their entire enrollment to the classification meeting! I don't have even the slightest idea why this has not been adopted. Sure I realize that in the metro areas it won't help, but it darn sure will everywhere else.
It wont pass and none of the complainers will like it because its fair. Public school will cry they cant control who comes in there district even though we know 90% of the kids who open enrolling are doing for some form of sport or NSAA activity and you only count those who play that sport or activity and private schools know they are going up one or as many as three classes, because they sit in larger areas and have a greater pool to choose from or they get kids from 3 to 5 different towns. Everyone wants their cake and wants to eat also.
 
It wont pass and none of the complainers will like it because its fair. Public school will cry they cant control who comes in there district even though we know 90% of the kids who open enrolling are doing for some form of sport or NSAA activity and you only count those who play that sport or activity and private schools know they are going up one or as many as three classes, because they sit in larger areas and have a greater pool to choose from or they get kids from 3 to 5 different towns. Everyone wants their cake and wants to eat also.

I disagree very much with your assumption of 90% for athletic reasons. Guys, let's be honest. This is a high school sports message board and most of us are only thinking about high school sports when we talk.

Ultimately schools are schools and not athletic manufacturing plants. Despite what some may think most parents send there kids to a school because of the academics, school history, community involvement and support, etc. They also send their kids to a school because of athletics but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that is the only reason.

My children are elementary aged and attend a smaller sized school in the northeast area that averages about 30/35ish kids per grade. Each of them have about 5-7 kids in their grade from an outside district. I'm assuming that there our kids from our district that have also open enrolled out into a neighboring district. Again elementary kids, not middle school, junior high, or high school. Are these parents already thinking about the 2027 football season? Heck, who knows if there will even be a school in 10 years!

My point is let's not get so caught up with a few cases and convince ourselves suddenly that the exceptions to the rule are now the rule itself.
 
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I disagree very much with your assumption of 90% for athletic reasons. Guys, let's be honest. This is a high school sports message board and most of us are only thinking about high school sports when we talk.

Ultimately schools are schools and not athletic manufacturing plants. Despite what some may think most parents send there kids to a school because of the academics, school history, community involvement and support, etc. They also send their kids to a school because of athletics but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that is the only reason.

My children are elementary aged and attend a smaller sized school in the northeast area that averages about 30/35ish kids per grade. Each of them have about 5-7 kids in their grade from an outside district. I'm assuming that there our kids from our district that have also open enrolled out into a neighboring district. Again elementary kids, not middle school, junior high, or high school. Are these parents already thinking about the 2027 football season? Heck, who knows if there will even be a school in 10 years!

My point is let's not get so caught up with a few cases and convince ourselves suddenly that the exceptions to the rule are now the rule itself.
Okay lets say we agree, you are still only counting the kids that play a sport on your enrollment from other towns, I am glad you responded I have brought this idea up before and it usually ends all conversation because private schools do not want this at all and over half the public schools do not want this either BUT I still believe it would be the fairest system of all
 
Okay lets say we agree, you are still only counting the kids that play a sport on your enrollment from other towns, I am glad you responded I have brought this idea up before and it usually ends all conversation because private schools do not want this at all and over half the public schools do not want this either BUT I still believe it would be the fairest system of all

Can you give me an example? I don't fully understand how AL baseball works?

If school A has an enrollment of 100 and accepts an open enrollee from school B with an enrollment of 50 school A would now have an enrollment of 151? School B would now have an enrollment of 49? I'm guessing I'm not right.
 
Can you give me an example? I don't fully understand how AL baseball works?

If school A has an enrollment of 100 and accepts an open enrollee from school B with an enrollment of 50 school A would now have an enrollment of 151? School B would now have an enrollment of 49? I'm guessing I'm not right.
It is more based on city population, it would be an entirely new system, it would not effect a Class A school. Example lets say Class B has been determined to be a city population of ( please bare with me these are just hypothetical numbers) Low end 4000 and high end 25000 Lets say a class B school has students on its football team from its city of 18000 and three towns or cities with populations of 800, 3500 and 1500 the new count for that school would be 23800 and would still be in Class B. Let say a D1 school with a population enrollment range from 700 to 1500 and that school sits in town of 900 but has students from surrounding district towns of 500, 650 an 250 its new population enrollment would be 2300, pushing them probably into a C2 range Or a private school that is D1 sets in a city with a population of 3000, that would push them into the C2 range and some may set in a city that would push them up two classes, you may have to put a limit of two class increase max, or not after all most are going just the education and that doesnt matter what class your in.
 
It is more based on city population, it would be an entirely new system, it would not effect a Class A school. Example lets say Class B has been determined to be a city population of ( please bare with me these are just hypothetical numbers) Low end 4000 and high end 25000 Lets say a class B school has students on its football team from its city of 18000 and three towns or cities with populations of 800, 3500 and 1500 the new count for that school would be 23800 and would still be in Class B. Let say a D1 school with a population enrollment range from 700 to 1500 and that school sits in town of 900 but has students from surrounding district towns of 500, 650 an 250 its new population enrollment would be 2300, pushing them probably into a C2 range Or a private school that is D1 sets in a city with a population of 3000, that would push them into the C2 range and some may set in a city that would push them up two classes, you may have to put a limit of two class increase max, or not after all most are going just the education and that doesnt matter what class your in.

Ya actually, there wouldn't really be a reason to put a 2 Class maximum increase in effect. Academic opportunities will not be effected whatsoever.

Ultimately, this issue is one in which I take very serious. For me, it isn't about the sports. It's about the slap in the face these families give the communities which they reside in. If our school isn't good enough for you, then why don't you move yourself and your family into a community that IS good enough for you. A school, a American Legion club, a church, and a community should be a source of pride. Community members should invest in these things and make a difference. We should effect change. We shouldn't abandon them for greener grasses.
 
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It is more based on city population, it would be an entirely new system, it would not effect a Class A school. Example lets say Class B has been determined to be a city population of ( please bare with me these are just hypothetical numbers) Low end 4000 and high end 25000 Lets say a class B school has students on its football team from its city of 18000 and three towns or cities with populations of 800, 3500 and 1500 the new count for that school would be 23800 and would still be in Class B. Let say a D1 school with a population enrollment range from 700 to 1500 and that school sits in town of 900 but has students from surrounding district towns of 500, 650 an 250 its new population enrollment would be 2300, pushing them probably into a C2 range Or a private school that is D1 sets in a city with a population of 3000, that would push them into the C2 range and some may set in a city that would push them up two classes, you may have to put a limit of two class increase max, or not after all most are going just the education and that doesnt matter what class your in.

I would be very hesitant and highly discourage ever using population figures. Especially when you get to more rural areas the population shifts to older populations. For example Boyd County consists of the former Butte, Spencer-Naper, and Lynch districts just 15 years earlier. 15 years ago these three would have made a larger C1 school. Now combined they are a D1 school. During this time Boyd county's population has decreased but not near to the same ratio as students decreased. Overall population of a district should have nothing to do with a school's classification.

If Homer takes on students from South Sioux City and Winnebago (which they do) and those kids play on the football team they would now be a Class A school or Class B if there is a two class max? I dont understand how that makes any sense at all. They currently elect to drop down to 8 man and now you want them to play Class B because of two kids? If Homer has a kid transfer to South Sioux City or Ponca (which also happens) can they now decrease their enrollment by the size of Ponca and South Sioux?

One of the few things I could maybe agree with is having an option enrolle counting as two as opposed to one. But again not all kids go somewhere because of only sports people! Or better yet, how about one kid counts as one kid, just like it currently is!

Giving the example I gave earlier about my childrens school someone is going to cry wolf in 10 years because little Johnny is the star quarterback and he isnt from the district while little johnny has been going to the school the past 10 years. If we look at the overall number of open enrollees in the state as of today in K-12, lets just say 15,000 as a guess, how many did so this year because of sports? Maybe 50?

Some are always trying to figure out how to level the field ala private multiplier, option enrollee multiplier, success factor multiplier, etc.... I may be in the minority but I believe one kid equals one kid, 100 kids equals 100 kids, and a 1000 kids equals 1000 kids. I go a differant direction and would simplify things by doing girls/boys seperatly and having fewer classes.

Whats next? This school has more coaches than the other? This school has a better weight room than the other? This community has a higher median income?

Good debate HSNut. Keep it going! Too many on here get there feelings hurt if someone disagrees with them then they get angry. Heck, lets just debate and have fun!
 
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It is more based on city population, it would be an entirely new system, it would not effect a Class A school. Example lets say Class B has been determined to be a city population of ( please bare with me these are just hypothetical numbers) Low end 4000 and high end 25000 Lets say a class B school has students on its football team from its city of 18000 and three towns or cities with populations of 800, 3500 and 1500 the new count for that school would be 23800 and would still be in Class B. Let say a D1 school with a population enrollment range from 700 to 1500 and that school sits in town of 900 but has students from surrounding district towns of 500, 650 an 250 its new population enrollment would be 2300, pushing them probably into a C2 range Or a private school that is D1 sets in a city with a population of 3000, that would push them into the C2 range and some may set in a city that would push them up two classes, you may have to put a limit of two class increase max, or not after all most are going just the education and that doesnt matter what class your in.

I would be very hesitant and highly discourage ever using population figures. Especially when you get to more rural areas the population shifts to older populations. For example Boyd County consists of the former Butte, Spencer-Naper, and Lynch districts just 15 years earlier. 15 years ago these three would have made a larger C1 school. Now combined they are a D1 school. During this time Boyd county's population has decreased but not near to the same ratio as students decreased. Overall population of a district should have nothing to do with a school's classification.

If Homer takes on students from South Sioux City and Winnebago (which they do) and those kids play on the football team they would now be a Class A school or Class B if there is a two class max? I dont understand how that makes any sense at all. They currently elect to drop down to 8 man and now you want them to play Class B because of two kids? If Homer has a kid transfer to South Sioux City or Ponca (which also happens) can they now decrease their enrollment by the size of Ponca and South Sioux?

One of the few things I could maybe agree with is having an option enrolle counting as two as opposed to one. But again not all kids go somewhere because of only sports people! Or better yet, how about one kid counts as one kid, just like it currently is!.

Giving the example I gave earlier about my childrens school someone is going to cry wolf in 10 years because little Johnny is the star quarterback and he isnt from the district while little johnny has been going to the school the past 10 years. If we look at the overall number of open enrollees in the state as of today in K-12, lets just say 15,000 as a guess, how many did so this year because of sports? Maybe 50?

Some are always trying to figure out how to level the field ala private multiplier, option enrollee multiplier, success factor multiplier, etc.... I may be in the minority but I believe one kid equals one kid, 100 kids equals 100 kids, and a 1000 kids equals 1000 kids. I go a differant direction and would simplify things by doing girls/boys seperatly and having fewer classes.

Good debate HSNut. Keep it going! Too many on here get there feelings hurt if someone disagrees with them then they get angry. Heck, lets just debate and have fun!
 
I would be very hesitant and highly discourage ever using population figures. Especially when you get to more rural areas the population shifts to older populations. For example Boyd County consists of the former Butte, Spencer-Naper, and Lynch districts just 15 years earlier. 15 years ago these three would have made a larger C1 school. Now combined they are a D1 school. During this time Boyd county's population has decreased but not near to the same ratio as students decreased. Overall population of a district should have nothing to do with a school's classification.

If Homer takes on students from South Sioux City and Winnebago (which they do) and those kids play on the football team they would now be a Class A school or Class B if there is a two class max? I dont understand how that makes any sense at all. They currently elect to drop down to 8 man and now you want them to play Class B because of two kids? If Homer has a kid transfer to South Sioux City or Ponca (which also happens) can they now decrease their enrollment by the size of Ponca and South Sioux?

One of the few things I could maybe agree with is having an option enrolle counting as two as opposed to one. But again not all kids go somewhere because of only sports people! Or better yet, how about one kid counts as one kid, just like it currently is!.

Giving the example I gave earlier about my childrens school someone is going to cry wolf in 10 years because little Johnny is the star quarterback and he isnt from the district while little johnny has been going to the school the past 10 years. If we look at the overall number of open enrollees in the state as of today in K-12, lets just say 15,000 as a guess, how many did so this year because of sports? Maybe 50?

Some are always trying to figure out how to level the field ala private multiplier, option enrollee multiplier, success factor multiplier, etc.... I may be in the minority but I believe one kid equals one kid, 100 kids equals 100 kids, and a 1000 kids equals 1000 kids. I go a differant direction and would simplify things by doing girls/boys seperatly and having fewer classes.

Good debate HSNut. Keep it going! Too many on here get there feelings hurt if someone disagrees with them then they get angry. Heck, lets just debate and have fun!

I agree with your point about district population. It is school enrollment NOT residence population. It is the combined enrollment of the 10th, 11th, and 12th grades as of March 31st according to the State Board of Education in the respective State.

So, if School A has an enrollment of 100, and takes a student from School B which has an enrollment of 60, then the student enrollment for School A is now 160 for classification purposes, and School B now has an enrollment of 59 for classification purposes. There is the possibility of School A moving up a class, and School B moving down a class especially if the governing body wants to limit numbers in the upper classes.

As far as opting down due to participation issues, that would not be effected. However, in the case of Winnebago (for example) they may very well be reclassified into class B (and quite frankly maybe they should be), yet continue to participate in 8 Man football.

No system is perfect, but I believe this type of system (or some similar variation) is worth a discussion.
 
What about non-town kids? Zip code? Phone exchange? School District? Map distance? Why does my school get punished because a bunch of 75 year olds have moved there based on retirement? This plan is Swiss Cheese.
 
I agree with your point about district population. It is school enrollment NOT residence population. It is the combined enrollment of the 10th, 11th, and 12th grades as of March 31st according to the State Board of Education in the respective State.

So, if School A has an enrollment of 100, and takes a student from School B which has an enrollment of 60, then the student enrollment for School A is now 160 for classification purposes, and School B now has an enrollment of 59 for classification purposes. There is the possibility of School A moving up a class, and School B moving down a class especially if the governing body wants to limit numbers in the upper classes.

As far as opting down due to participation issues, that would not be effected. However, in the case of Winnebago (for example) they may very well be reclassified into class B (and quite frankly maybe they should be), yet continue to participate in 8 Man football.

No system is perfect, but I believe this type of system (or some similar variation) is worth a discussion.
So...you move an Amherst to Class A and allow them to opt down to C2...what have you gained??? Trying to use a fairly flawed Club Sport criteria for High School Participation is problematic at best.
 
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So...you move an Amherst to Class A and allow them to opt down to C2...what have you gained??? Trying to use a fairly flawed Club Sport criteria for High School Participation is problematic at best.

Are you even TRYING to understand how the Legion Baseball classification system works? Where in the scenario that I put out there do you get Amherst being a Class A school? Amherst has a 3 year enrollment of 85 students. The smallest Class A School is 900. The only way Amherst goes to Class A is if a student from Kearney enrolls in their school AND participates in sports. Again, Academic Exemption. If Amherst doesn't want to play Class A, then DON'T ALLOW ATHLETIC TRANSFERS THAT RESIDE WITHIN THE KEARNEY SCHOOL DISTRICT! If High Plains school system doesn't want to play Class B Boys Basketball, then DON'T ALLOW A KID THAT RESIDES IN THE AURORA SCHOOL DISTRICT TO PLAY BASKETBALL!

Legion Baseball's Classification system is HARDLY a "fairly flawed Club Sport criteria". Many states have actually merged High School Baseball with Legion Baseball, and the player eligibility and Classification that these States use is in fact the Legion Baseball's "fairly flawed Club Sports criteria". They use it because it works.

The opt down is and always will be a participation based reclassification. It is in place for 11 Man football schools that can't fill an 11 Man roster...or 8 Man that can't fill an 8 Man roster. An 11 Man Class B football team can't opt down to being an 11 Man Class C-2 team. I am not sure where you are coming from there.

This is just conversation anyway. We all know that the NSAA isn't going to change anything. The athletic directors that have a voice don't want to change it. The don't want to piss off the AD up the road from them. They are perfectly happy with the way things are.
 
So kid from Ogallala decides he'd rather go to school in South Platte. South Platte gets one kid from Ogallala and because of that one kid they would have to move up to C-2 or above? Makes no sense to me at all.

No, South Platte down not move up any classes because one kid from Ogallala decides he would rather go to SCHOOL in South Platte. South Platte will move up ONLY IF that one kid from Ogallala decides he wants to participate in HS Sports.

Many critics of this type of system are thinking about the middle of the road athlete that just wants to participate. They are not thinking about the upper end athlete that is a difference maker. They are not thinking about the Freshmen that lives in the St Edward school district and drives over to Riverside to go to school......and proceeds to go off for 50+ points in one game...and averages over 20/game. Why shouldn't Riverside be playing D1 instead of D2? Who thinks St Edward would be a better team with this kid playing for them?
 
Are you even TRYING to understand how the Legion Baseball classification system works? Where in the scenario that I put out there do you get Amherst being a Class A school? Amherst has a 3 year enrollment of 85 students. The smallest Class A School is 900. The only way Amherst goes to Class A is if a student from Kearney enrolls in their school AND participates in sports. Again, Academic Exemption. If Amherst doesn't want to play Class A, then DON'T ALLOW ATHLETIC TRANSFERS THAT RESIDE WITHIN THE KEARNEY SCHOOL DISTRICT! If High Plains school system doesn't want to play Class B Boys Basketball, then DON'T ALLOW A KID THAT RESIDES IN THE AURORA SCHOOL DISTRICT TO PLAY BASKETBALL!

Legion Baseball's Classification system is HARDLY a "fairly flawed Club Sport criteria". Many states have actually merged High School Baseball with Legion Baseball, and the player eligibility and Classification that these States use is in fact the Legion Baseball's "fairly flawed Club Sports criteria". They use it because it works.

The opt down is and always will be a participation based reclassification. It is in place for 11 Man football schools that can't fill an 11 Man roster...or 8 Man that can't fill an 8 Man roster. An 11 Man Class B football team can't opt down to being an 11 Man Class C-2 team. I am not sure where you are coming from there.

This is just conversation anyway. We all know that the NSAA isn't going to change anything. The athletic directors that have a voice don't want to change it. The don't want to piss off the AD up the road from them. They are perfectly happy with the way things are.

"If Amherst doesn't want to play Class A, then DON'T ALLOW ATHLETIC TRANSFERS THAT RESIDE WITHIN THE KEARNEY SCHOOL DISTRICT!"

Again this is the major flaw I see. Probably 95%+ of option enrolles are not primarily for athletic purposes. I would guess that almost nearly every public school in the state has an option enrolled kid in their district, many of who play sports. If your proposed idea would take place almost no school would have their current enrollment number. What would all this number transfering around accomplish?

I keep coming back to the example of elementary aged school kids. For example....A kindergartner lives on the very east edge of the Norfolk school district. 5 years earlier his parents bought their dream home on a nice acreage 15 miles from Norfolk Public and 12 miles from Winside but is in the Norfolk district. His parents grew up in Winside and all of the parents social network is still in Winside. In addition both sets of grandparents live in Winside and one set is fully retired and help with after school daycare. Mom stays home with the other kids and dad works at the hardware store in Winside. The family prefers a small school to a large school. To this family Winside makes perfect sense and they option enroll their kindergartner. Fast foward 9 years and their son is now a 5'8 130 lb freshman who plays on special teams for the varsity but the vast majority of playing time is on the JV. Because of this player Winside is now Class A because they accepted an "athletic transfer"?

Not saying "athletic transfers" dont happen but dont completely blow everything up for a small piece of the pie. Exceptions are exceptions not the rule.
 
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