Is Parkview Christian the Best D-2 Boys Team Ever

[ClkTwr2011]

There isn't. If a family wants to attend a a parochial school that offers tuition assistance, they can apply to receive tuition assistance. Does not matter if they are in activities or not.

Contrary to the popular belief, parochial schools outside of Lincoln and Omaha aren't picking and choosing what kids come to their school. If that said 7-12 parochial school has elementary feeder schools, most of the kids who are in high school went to Catholic grade school. Catholic schools aren't turning away kids. They will take any student who can afford tuition and has a good standing from their previous school if they are a transfer.

I kind of had to laugh at the conflicting information in your post. Don't be offended, it isn't a challenge and I absolutely understand the points you are making.

I don't know anything about the inner workings of a Parochial school. What I do know is that the rural (Class D Level) parochial schools are struggling for enrollment like everyone else is. We can see it by the sports co-op relationships. The Lindsay Holy Family co-op with Humphrey Public would be a good (and productive) example of this.

Not to put you on the spot, but you make a point of differentiating between Lincoln and Omaha parochial schools from the rest of the State. Do you believe that the Lincoln and Omaha parochial schools ARE picking and choosing what kids come to their school? Or could it be a situation in which the kids and families migrate that direction on their own?

By the way, I appreciate the mature exchange of information on this thread. Everyone is keeping this respectful and I think that is great. This is a sensitive subject for many and it is easy to get tipped over when it comes to this.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

To be honest if I lived close to a parochial school my kids would go there.

Mine probably would have too. Well, we certainly would have given serious consideration anyway.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I kind of had to laugh at the conflicting information in your post. Don't be offended, it isn't a challenge and I absolutely understand the points you are making.

I don't know anything about the inner workings of a Parochial school. What I do know is that the rural (Class D Level) parochial schools are struggling for enrollment like everyone else is. We can see it by the sports co-op relationships. The Lindsay Holy Family co-op with Humphrey Public would be a good (and productive) example of this.

Not to put you on the spot, but you make a point of differentiating between Lincoln and Omaha parochial schools from the rest of the State. Do you believe that the Lincoln and Omaha parochial schools ARE picking and choosing what kids come to their school? Or could it be a situation in which the kids and families migrate that direction on their own?

By the way, I appreciate the mature exchange of information on this thread. Everyone is keeping this respectful and I think that is great. This is a sensitive subject for many and it is easy to get tipped over when it comes to this.

The main point I make regarding Omaha and LNK is Skutt, Marian, Prep, Roncalli have placement exams. So in a way they are choosing who they want. Not sure if every student has to take it or not.

But I do think that the majority of families who want their kids to be in that environment they do it at an early age. At least that’s my experience from the rural side of things. In rural Nebraska I can bet 90-95% of the students graduating from parochial schools went to private elementary. Obviously GICC and Kearney Catholic are exceptions because they don’t have elementary schools associated to their districts.

I appreciate the exchange as well. I support parochial schools but also respect public schools. (I went to a Class D public school K-12). Every school serves a purpose.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Here’s the problem with parochial vs public. Public takes low income and special needs kids and count everyone of them. Parochial only takes the ones they want. Parochial school magically do not have better athletes they just have more to offer higher income parents than public schools do. Sorry for hurting feelings but that is the truth.

Parochial schools take low income students all the time. They also take students with special needs if they have a designated staff member to assist those students for a few hours out of the day.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Parochial schools take low income students all the time. They also take students with special needs if they have a designated staff member to assist those students for a few hours out of the day.

if and most do not and if so very very low numbers Like I said I believe its a matter of a true count, in Nebraska that is about 14.2% of the public school population

 

[ClkTwr2011]

The main point I make regarding Omaha and LNK is Skutt, Marian, Prep, Roncalli have placement exams. So in a way they are choosing who they want. Not sure if every student has to take it or not.

But I do think that the majority of families who want their kids to be in that environment they do it at an early age. At least that’s my experience from the rural side of things. In rural Nebraska I can bet 90-95% of the students graduating from parochial schools went to private elementary. Obviously GICC and Kearney Catholic are exceptions because they don’t have elementary schools associated to their districts.

I appreciate the exchange as well. I support parochial schools but also respect public schools. (I went to a Class D public school K-12). Every school serves a purpose.

I did not know that any schools utilized placement exams.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

No gas card necesssry for public schools because they can just send a school van or bus to pick them up. For example, Cedar Bluffs and Arlington send transportation to Fremont to pick up and drop off students that live there.

I think I heard that 6 (?) different districts bus from North Platte. Also, rural districts that don't bus, do pay mileage if the parents request it.

 

[Alum-Ni]

Parochial schools take low income students all the time. They also take students with special needs if they have a designated staff member to assist those students for a few hours out of the day.

Some do, but it's a bit of a rarity. The special needs students need so much specialized instruction, they usually end up in the public school because they have the funding and resources/staff to educate those students. (Or the private school has an arrangement to work with a public school on this). Very, very few private schools are equipped to handle these types of students.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Some do, but it's a bit of a rarity. The special needs students need so much specialized instruction, they usually end up in the public school because they have the funding and resources/staff to educate those students. (Or the private school has an arrangement to work with a public school on this). Very, very few private schools are equipped to handle these types of students.

Agreed, but at the same time, the statement "private schools don't take any kids with special needs." is not true at all. They can't take them all and the biggest reason is funding/staffing/resources. It's not because they don't want those kids to add against their numbers.

 

[northeastNebraska]

I think I heard that 6 (?) different districts bus from North Platte. Also, rural districts that don't bus, do pay mileage if the parents request it.

Tryon, Stapleton, Hershey, Maxwell for sure. Maywood may pick up kids at Maloney.

I don't think that is a bad thing either, if parents want to live in NP and said their kid outside of town for school, that is their right to do that.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

if and most do not and if so very very low numbers Like I said I believe its a matter of a true coun

Agreed, but at the same time, the statement "private schools don't take any kids with special needs." is not true at all. They can't take them all and the biggest reason is funding/staffing/resources. It's not because they don't want those kids to add against their numbers.

So would it be fair to say that a better way to do a count for classification would be to minus the 14% off the public schools total enrollment or each school public or private can minus off their enrollment of special needs students reported to the state ????

 

[TC53]

There is no question that in the modern sports landscape, wealth correlates to athletic success. People are very, very uncomfortable with that. They don't even want to talk about it much less incorporate it into athletic classification.

I've been looking around for other correlative statistics that would give the same indications of schools with advantages without directly going to the free/reduced lunch statistics. One thing I've been kicking around is games played below varsity level which indicates more true numbers of participation. There would have to be some type of required reporting to make that work, but that's not insurmountable because you would have two schools reporting each contest which allows checks on teams that might hide contests.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Agreed, but at the same time, the statement "private schools don't take any kids with special needs." is not true at all. They can't take them all and the biggest reason is funding/staffing/resources. It's not because they don't want those kids to add against their numbers.

You are making a good point here. I don't believe that factors like this are driven by a school's desire to keep their enrollment numbers down for sports classification reasons. As you are saying, they simply are not staffed to handle the needs of these students.

The point is that things like this (while not deliberate) are factors when it comes to classification.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

There is no question that in the modern sports landscape, wealth correlates to athletic success. People are very, very uncomfortable with that. They don't even want to talk about it much less incorporate it into athletic classification.

I've been looking around for other correlative statistics that would give the same indications of schools with advantages without directly going to the free/reduced lunch statistics. One thing I've been kicking around is games played below varsity level which indicates more true numbers of participation. There would have to be some type of required reporting to make that work, but that's not insurmountable because you would have two schools reporting each contest which allows checks on teams that might hide contests.

There is no question that athletic success begins with money. Go play club baseball with your 8 year old, or stay home and play T-Ball. There is not questions which one equates to greater success as these players mature through the process. Club baseball is very expensive. Softball, soccer, basketball, they are all the same. The travel side of those club sports is very expensive. As much as I want to believe that the average kid can catch up with those club sports kids, I have never seen it to be a reality.

I like the fact that you are searching for other metrics beyond the lunch statistics. Some other areas that may be worth looking at: Median household income (you are speaking to this already), Ethnic mix of the student body, Home ownership percentage among student's families, Family structure of families (single parent households), Average number of college graduates in the household, etc.. It would be interesting to see if there is a disproportionate comparison from parochial to public with regard for any of these areas.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

There is no question that in the modern sports landscape, wealth correlates to athletic success. People are very, very uncomfortable with that. They don't even want to talk about it much less incorporate it into athletic classification.

I've been looking around for other correlative statistics that would give the same indications of schools with advantages without directly going to the free/reduced lunch statistics. One thing I've been kicking around is games played below varsity level which indicates more true numbers of participation. There would have to be some type of required reporting to make that work, but that's not insurmountable because you would have two schools reporting each contest which allows checks on teams that might hide contests.

I think in aspects of TEAM success, you're exactly right. A few years ago, though, I saw some numbers that indicated the % of D1 Athletes for football and basketball that were free/reduced lunch and/or special ED was staggering. In states without option enrollment that could be a problem. In the Metro they play hoops at MN or BW and football at Burke. In states without OE, the suburban teams murder the city schools, but D1 football players tend to come from more urban schools. So is using the F/R or SpEd data valid? I'm not convinced. Maybe a deal where poor kids and "slower" kids aren't counted unless they are out for an activity? Dunno. Seems much ado about nothing, to be honest.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

So would it be fair to say that a better way to do a count for classification would be to minus the 14% off the public schools total enrollment or each school public or private can minus off their enrollment of special needs students reported to the state ????

As long as they don't compete, you might make that case. I hardly think it's fair, on the other hand, to not count a significant % of state wrestling qualifiers, for example.

 

[Power_I_82]

There isn't. If a family wants to attend a a parochial school that offers tuition assistance, they can apply to receive tuition assistance. Does not matter if they are in activities or not.

Contrary to the popular belief, parochial schools outside of Lincoln and Omaha aren't picking and choosing what kids come to their school. If that said 7-12 parochial school has elementary feeder schools, most of the kids who are in high school went to Catholic grade school. Catholic schools aren't turning away kids. They will take any student who can afford tuition and has a good standing from their previous school if they are a transfer.

tuition assistance=scholarship

If these schools are so desperate for kids to make money to keep the doors open why would they offer tuition assistance. I know you teach and have taught at parochial schools but the "we just work harder" line doesn't cut it for me. I've said it before on this topic. Small class private schools in major population centers isn't fair. They basically play by a different set of rules. It is within the rules, yes. Like many other things, this is an area the NSAA is flawed and has turned a blind eye to. Sooner or later something will need done about it.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

As long as they don't compete, you might make that case. I hardly think it's fair, on the other hand, to not count a significant % of state wrestling qualifiers, for example.

oh wow. wrestlers %. I think you are so far off base on that. I assume you are being sarcastic or I misunderstand what you are trying to say

 

[northeastNebraska]

Small class private schools in major population centers isn't fair. They basically play by a different set of rules. It is within the rules, yes. Like many other things, this is an area the NSAA is flawed and has turned a blind eye to. Sooner or later something will need done about it.

Do Battle Creek and Pierce have an unfair advantage? They get transfers in from Norfolk every single year at every grade level. They are next to a "major population center". What about Hershey and Maxwell who get kids from North Platte every year. Amherst and Elm Creek from Kearney. Northwest, Wood River and Doniphan-Trumbull from GI? Malcolm benefits from its proximity to Lincoln. Auburn benefits greatly to their location because they can pull kids from so many little towns down south.

Should Waverly, Norris, Elkhorn High, Elkhorn North, Bennington be in Class A because they are so close to Omaha and LNK? (Heck, the Elkhorn and Gretna schools are pretty much "private schools" now). Those schools have a definite advantage over McCook, Lexington, Aurora, Seward, Hastings and Schuyler, etc.. Everyone knows that if you are an athlete in the Scottsbluff/Gering area, you go to Scottsbluff. I can bet nearly every single school district (public and private) in Nebraska have multiple kids that don't live in their district. Should they be bumped up?

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

oh wow. wrestlers %. I think you are so far off base on that. I assume you are being sarcastic or I misunderstand what you are trying to say

Nope. Neither. I've had a number of really high caliber wrestlers who were Special Needs students. Far more, in my personal experience, than any other single sport. Over half of my championships in fact.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

Do Battle Creek and Pierce have an unfair advantage? They get transfers in from Norfolk every single year at every grade level. They are next to a "major population center". What about Hershey and Maxwell who get kids from North Platte every year. Amherst and Elm Creek from Kearney. Northwest, Wood River and Doniphan-Trumbull from GI? Malcolm benefits from its proximity to Lincoln. Auburn benefits greatly to their location because they can pull kids from so many little towns down south.

Should Waverly, Norris, Elkhorn High, Elkhorn North, Bennington be in Class A because they are so close to Omaha and LNK? (Heck, the Elkhorn and Gretna schools are pretty much "private schools" now). Those schools have a definite advantage over McCook, Lexington, Aurora, Seward, Hastings and Schuyler, etc.. Everyone knows that if you are an athlete in the Scottsbluff/Gering area, you go to Scottsbluff. I can bet nearly every single school district (public and private) in Nebraska have multiple kids that don't live in their district. Should they be bumped up?

Very well said. Agree completely. The examples go far beyond these of course, but in the interests of space and time, you've hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head.

 

[Alum-Ni]

I've mentioned this before, but Colorado has a unique way of classifying schools.

Enrollment is still a factor, but other factors such as socio-economics, demographics, safety, competitive success (or lack thereof), geography, enrollment trends and participation rates are all factors in how Colorado classifies its member high schools.

 

[northeastNebraska]

Very well said. Agree completely. The examples go far beyond these of course, but in the interests of space and time, you've hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head.

And I don’t have a problem with it personally. Battle Creek, Amherst etc should continue to promote their great school systems. There is nothing wrong about promoting your school and the benefits it could have on a prospective student.

If parents want to send their kids to another community for school that’s their choice. If they want to send their kids to private schools that is their choice.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

I've mentioned this before, but Colorado has a unique way of classifying schools.

Enrollment is still a factor, but other factors such as socio-economics, demographics, safety, competitive success (or lack thereof), geography, enrollment trends and participation rates are all factors in how Colorado classifies its member high schools.

That's interesting. Is it as complicated as it seems? The Devil, I fear, is always in the details. For example the arguments over how much each thing is weighted and while demographics might hinder a school in one sport, it could be a major advantage in others. Is it described in detail anywhere that you know of? If I had to pick one we're not addressing it would the competitive success issue. And maybe instead of punishing those who are successful, we slide down the other end of the spectrum? (After, of course we stop the ridiculous practice of schools choosing their own class by "opting down....there! Couldn't seem totally reasonable)

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Do Battle Creek and Pierce have an unfair advantage? They get transfers in from Norfolk every single year at every grade level. They are next to a "major population center". What about Hershey and Maxwell who get kids from North Platte every year. Amherst and Elm Creek from Kearney. Northwest, Wood River and Doniphan-Trumbull from GI? Malcolm benefits from its proximity to Lincoln. Auburn benefits greatly to their location because they can pull kids from so many little towns down south.

Should Waverly, Norris, Elkhorn High, Elkhorn North, Bennington be in Class A because they are so close to Omaha and LNK? (Heck, the Elkhorn and Gretna schools are pretty much "private schools" now). Those schools have a definite advantage over McCook, Lexington, Aurora, Seward, Hastings and Schuyler, etc.. Everyone knows that if you are an athlete in the Scottsbluff/Gering area, you go to Scottsbluff. I can bet nearly every single school district (public and private) in Nebraska have multiple kids that don't live in their district. Should they be bumped up?

I agree with your point, I believe this advantage in private vs public discussion come in the form of Special needs students and low income students BUT if we just stay in special needs discussion there is for sure an advantage in a true count in that area with out a doubt. would you not agree

 

[Alum-Ni]

That's interesting. Is it as complicated as it seems? The Devil, I fear, is always in the details. For example the arguments over how much each thing is weighted and while demographics might hinder a school in one sport, it could be a major advantage in others. Is it described in detail anywhere that you know of? If I had to pick one we're not addressing it would the competitive success issue. And maybe instead of punishing those who are successful, we slide down the other end of the spectrum? (After, of course we stop the ridiculous practice of schools choosing their own class by "opting down....there! Couldn't seem totally reasonable)

I'll try to find some details on how it works

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

Tryon, Stapleton, Hershey, Maxwell for sure. Maywood may pick up kids at Maloney.

I don't think that is a bad thing either, if parents want to live in NP and said their kid outside of town for school, that is their right to do that.

I don't disagree one bit. I just think it needs noted that not only are every one of those kids is, not only, on full scholarship, paid for by the taxpayers of that district, and all of Nebraska, but in essence get the aforementioned "gas card" to boot.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I don't disagree one bit. I just think it needs noted that not only are every one of those kids is, not only, on full scholarship, paid for by the taxpayers of that district, and all of Nebraska, but in essence get the aforementioned "gas card" to boot.

agree with your point, I believe this advantage in private vs public discussion come in the form of Special needs students and low income students BUT if we just stay in special needs discussion there is for sure an advantage in a true count in that area with out a doubt. would you not agree

 

[KJ Husker]

After watching Parkview Christian play, it occurred to me that this may be the best D2 team I have ever seen. They really looked as if they could have beaten St Mary's about as bad as they wanted to. I honestly give them credit for not hanging another 15 on them. And that was a VERY good St Mary's team. I don't want anyone to even consider this as disrespectful toward them.

I tried to remember back over the years, and admit that I have some trouble sorting out some D1 vs D2 teams just from memory.

There are some teams from St Francis, Sacred Heart, and Bancroft-Rosalie that come to mind in recent history. I don't believe any of those teams could have played with this Parkview Christian group, but that is impossible to know.

What are the group's opinion on where they would put this Parkview Christian group.

 

[KJ Husker]

Think the 1984 Clearwater team would be hard to argue against.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

I don't disagree one bit. I just think it needs noted that not only are every one of those kids is, not only, on full scholarship, paid for by the taxpayers of that district, and all of Nebraska, but in essence get the aforementioned "gas card" to boot.

I don't know about that. A scholarship is defined as a grant in aid to a student. I wouldn't call a public school education a grant in aid.

I understand your point to be that the public education is free just like the parochial scholarship education is free. They are not the same.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I don't know about that. A scholarship is defined as a grant in aid to a student. I wouldn't call a public school education a grand in aid.

I understand your point to be that the public education is free just like the parochial scholarship education is free. They are not the same.

One is free to all, the other is free to a select group. NOT even close to the same

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

One is free to all, the other is free to a select group. NOT even close to the same

You mean poor kids are now a "select" group? It is exactly the same. Free education at your choice of institution.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

You mean poor kids are now a "select" group? It is exactly the same. Free education at your choice of institution.

Now come on....I am following you through most of this and absolutely respecting your opinions. We all know that scholarships are NOT just for poor kids.

 

[mww]

One is free to all, the other is free to a select group. NOT even close to the same

Parents that send kids to parochial schools are also paying twice for education as they are also paying taxes to fund the public schools. There is no tax break for sending kids to non public schools.

 

[HighPlainsCoach]

Now come on....I am following you through most of this and absolutely respecting your opinions. We all know that scholarships are NOT just for poor kids.

Really? Who are they for? Bankers kids? Lawyers kids? Those of Heart Surgeons? So who exactly DOES get them?

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Really? Who are they for? Bankers kids? Lawyers kids? Those of Heart Surgeons? So who exactly DOES get them?

Agree with all of your points but then answer this: I have asked three times so i will try again
I believe this advantage in private vs public discussion come in the form of Special needs students and low income students BUT if we just stay in special needs discussion there is for sure an advantage in a true count in that area with out a doubt. would you not agree ????????

 

[northeastNebraska]

Agree with all of your points but then answer this: I have asked three times so i will try again
I believe this advantage in private vs public discussion come in the form of Special needs students and low income students BUT if we just stay in special needs discussion there is for sure an advantage in a true count in that area with out a doubt. would you not agree ????????

If you need that answer to fit your narrative, then sure.

But even if you gave the private schools the same resources/technology/budget/staffing as a public school in the special education area, it would add a small percentage of special education students to their enrollment, because not all of them would come. If that were to happen, you would not see a lot of private schools move up a class. Maybe a couple, but it wouldn't change the enrollment trends as much as you think.

There are a lot of people out there who don't know enough/care about private schools or have misinformation regarding private schools on their mind to even think about sending their kids to private schools. They just want their kid to go to school, which is fine. That isn't the private schools fault that certain public schools have groups of kids who aren't invested in activities.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Really? Who are they for? Bankers kids? Lawyers kids? Those of Heart Surgeons? So who exactly DOES get them?

I have absolute knowledge of a "scholarship" that was offered to a student that needed no financial assistance. This student did not come from a "poor household". This kid was a very good athlete. This was not rumor and was not 2nd or 3rd person. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with it. I am saying that we should not pretend it doesn't happen.

 

[ClkTwr2011]

Agree with all of your points but then answer this: I have asked three times so i will try again
I believe this advantage in private vs public discussion come in the form of Special needs students and low income students BUT if we just stay in special needs discussion there is for sure an advantage in a true count in that area with out a doubt. would you not agree ????????

I wish I knew what type of student count the special needs students represent. I certainly agree that it is a factor. I just don't know the degree of this factor.