I do not know if they are and I really dont care, but any NSAA athletic or activity student who receives any reduction from any school, should be fully disclosed and all qualification for reduction should be fully disclosed and public knowledge. If you want to participate in a NSAA event then you should have to disclose all info, just like all public schools have to disclose all info. Public school should also be able to offer gas cards or money for students to offset driving cost into districts to promote their school. That is a fair system.
Thoughts....
- Thread starter huskers_2001
- Start date
I do not agree with the success factor but do agree with the boy and girl numbers and do agree with some form of point system for free and reduce and special ed for enrollment count, by either adding to private enrollment with a multiplier or reducing enrollment numbers for public schools for true count.
My public school had 70 out for football 15 years ago, now a good year is 35, and there aren't more Special Education than there was before or ESL students to blame it on, and it isn't because of private recruiting, either.
But yeah, let's blame the successful programs. I heard they are not only giving the money they don't have out to players without disclosing, they are also giving steroids out to their athletes, and they don't even have to disclose it!!!!! (Maybe I shouldn't joke around, a few babies in this thread would actually take that and run with it)
But yeah, let's blame the successful programs. I heard they are not only giving the money they don't have out to players without disclosing, they are also giving steroids out to their athletes, and they don't even have to disclose it!!!!! (Maybe I shouldn't joke around, a few babies in this thread would actually take that and run with it)
We're not talking about $35,000 a year scholarships. Scholarships that I know of at private schools normally are worth at most a $100. Those scholarships are based on academics, need, and a written essay. Those scholarships are also a memorial for a fallen friend, parent, teacher or priest. The people that are sponsoring the scholarship make the decision on who receives the scholarship, not the school. Heck of a deal for those scholarship winners. Now school only costs $3900 per year instead of $4000 per year. Might want to keep that full ride at the local public school.
LOL Please your public school has way more ESL and sped than 15 years ago, state numbers have doubled in both departments since then. but I do agree we should not punish success
Well my barber's neighboor's dog's vet heard that Norfolk Catholic bought a 2014 Hummer for that Kautz kid to keep him there. They would have gone with a 2016 model but since they are almost into C2 they don't have enough tuition paying students to pay the extra cost. And to be fair, they gave him a 2 year supply of gas cards too.....
15 years ago nobody knew what ESL was. Special ed numbers have gone up everywhere due to the fact that we are a society that has to label people. My kid didn't get all A's this semester, there must be something wrong with him. When I was growing up, the only students that had IEP's were students that were actually special needs.
Doesnt matter if its $1.00 full discloser for NSAA participants and that would be the same disclosure for public schools would give milage compensation money and that money needs to also come from boosters or donors or memorial for a fallen friend, parent, teacher or priest. This would be a true fair system
They don't take special education kids most of the time because in smaller catholic schools they don't have a teacher or department to do so.
Catholic schools don't turn kids away (especially the smaller ones.) You really think they are going to turn down tuition money that helps fund their school? Trust me, I coached at one, they want all the kids they can get.
Do some families get tuition help? Sure, but those kids deserve it if their family realizes the importance of catholic schools to their family. Not everyone gets tuition assistance so let's be realistic.
I knew a kid who was recruited from a private school to a public school in another town. He had the chance to go to the public school in the same town as the private one in which he lived in but didn't. Want to know why? Because the other school in another town was excellent at basketball.
Full disclosure would be fine, but the private school haters wouldn't like it. They would have less to complain about after losing a game. Of course, they would probably come back and say that they are cooking the books. How about full disclosure on kids that opt from one school district to another? This just in, for the majority of those kids it isn't about academics.
15 years ago there were ESL students. Just ask people from places like Lexington, Schuyler, Columbus, South Sioux City, and Omaha South. There are obviously far more now due to the massive increase in migrants to the state, but there were Latino students in the listed communities 15 years ago.
Do you really believe that schools (and SPED departments) go through the hours of work, parents through the agony of homework and scheduling meetings/testing/ect. because they want to "label" a kid who isn't "actually special needs"? Maybe in the last 20 years we've learned more about how the brain works and kids learn. It's not about As and Bs and I'm offended at this thought as someone who has a degree in special education!
Sorry I offended you, and I know how much work a special ed teacher does. Seen it first hand with family members. I have seen one or two instances that a parent has demanded their child to be tested in order to label them. The reason was their grades weren't as high as their older brother or sister. On the other hand, I have also seen parents not want their child tested, because they didn't want them labeled.
I think what he was referring to is simply the difference between a rather mild (by definition) learning disability and a serious handicap caused by cerebral palsy or something. A vast majority of "Sped" kids get very little services and really don't require much other than a simple adjustment (modification or accommodation) or two. It's ridiculous to assume most, very many more than the contrary, can't be valuable members of an athletic team. Very much the same for poor kids. The rosters of D1 football teams are FULL of kids who were free/reduced in high school. Goofy. All because somebody has more success than you. Goofy.
My own opinion here, so it is worth what you are paying for it.
Many years ago, my oldest 2 sons played Club Sports...basketball and baseball, and my daughter Softball. This was my observation from those many summers traveling the Midwest.
Kids that play club sports are at a SERIOUS advantage when their high school season starts. These kids have seen a level of competition that is nearly impossible to replicate at the structured Class C2 High School level. These kids came into direct competition with D1 scholarship players as well as future D1 scholarship players. They stand in the box and look at an 80+ MPH fastball being delivered from the hand of a 14 year old. They attempted to take charges from 15 year old boys that literally jump right over them in the process of force feeding the rim.
It costs a great deal of money to participate in club sports.
The majority of players that my kids teamed up with and faced went to parochial schools, although my kids did not.
I am sorry in advance to anyone that does not agree with my opinions here, but the problem is not recruiting or scholarships within the parochial schools. Our public schools are not at a disadvantage because of the recruiting of athletes. Our public schools are at a disadvantage because of the lack of money. Household money, as well as establishment funding. The money that it takes to develop their children to compete at that State Championship "next level", as well as the money that it takes to build and staff training facilities.
I personally do NOT believe that parochial schools recruit kids with superior athletic ability. I believe that they ATTRACT kids with superior athletic ability. I believe that they ATTRACT families with the "means" to make the necessary commitment to perform at the State Championship "next level". And when that pipeline opens up, it is extremely challenging for a public school to plug it.
If you are an Omaha Metro parent with "means", and your son wants to be a great wrestler, wouldn't you be tempted by Skutt? I sure would. If you were a parent from say Brainard, and Jr is tipping the scales at 200 lbs as he finishes his 8th grade year, wouldn't you be tempted by Aquinas? I sure would. Norfolk Catholic? Lourdes? St Francis? Kearney Catholic? Jr is probably going to play for a State Title, and likely will not otherwise. This is what I mean by "attracting".
All of us Public school parents have failed to open up our own pipeline. We have failed to be a part of building something that kids in the area want to be a part of. We have gotten our asses kicked and kicked pretty good.
If we want to change it, we have to start at the Elementary level. We need to do elementary basketball camps 3 nights a week all winter long. We need to haul our 5th graders to Omaha every weekend to play in a basketball league. We have to load them up all spring and summer and go to basketball tournaments...and play in the Gold Division with the best competition we can find. And when they start getting really good, we have to travel farther and go find someone to kick our ass to get better. We as communities and families have to eat sleep and breathe this shit because I can PROMISE you that our Parochial School counterparts are doing exactly that. This is not about scholarships and recruiting. This is about commitment to building something special...something that everyone wants to be a part of. When we have done this, the kids from our surrounding communities will be wanting to come and be a part of it as well. And guys, it works. I have done it. And the teams I have done it with still hold many individual and team records in our public school. These teams all had All State players, college players, and even future HS coaches on them.
Do I believe that Parochial Schools have an advantage? Damn right I do. I believe it is an advantage that they created themselves. I also believe that it is an advantage that we can neutralize and actually overcome, but it is not easy.
As far as a multiplier...I don't really think it will make much difference from D2-D1. D1 to C2, or C2 to C1. I believe that the re-classed teams will likely rise to the top of their new class as well. The other potential re-classifications I really don't know enough about.
Many years ago, my oldest 2 sons played Club Sports...basketball and baseball, and my daughter Softball. This was my observation from those many summers traveling the Midwest.
Kids that play club sports are at a SERIOUS advantage when their high school season starts. These kids have seen a level of competition that is nearly impossible to replicate at the structured Class C2 High School level. These kids came into direct competition with D1 scholarship players as well as future D1 scholarship players. They stand in the box and look at an 80+ MPH fastball being delivered from the hand of a 14 year old. They attempted to take charges from 15 year old boys that literally jump right over them in the process of force feeding the rim.
It costs a great deal of money to participate in club sports.
The majority of players that my kids teamed up with and faced went to parochial schools, although my kids did not.
I am sorry in advance to anyone that does not agree with my opinions here, but the problem is not recruiting or scholarships within the parochial schools. Our public schools are not at a disadvantage because of the recruiting of athletes. Our public schools are at a disadvantage because of the lack of money. Household money, as well as establishment funding. The money that it takes to develop their children to compete at that State Championship "next level", as well as the money that it takes to build and staff training facilities.
I personally do NOT believe that parochial schools recruit kids with superior athletic ability. I believe that they ATTRACT kids with superior athletic ability. I believe that they ATTRACT families with the "means" to make the necessary commitment to perform at the State Championship "next level". And when that pipeline opens up, it is extremely challenging for a public school to plug it.
If you are an Omaha Metro parent with "means", and your son wants to be a great wrestler, wouldn't you be tempted by Skutt? I sure would. If you were a parent from say Brainard, and Jr is tipping the scales at 200 lbs as he finishes his 8th grade year, wouldn't you be tempted by Aquinas? I sure would. Norfolk Catholic? Lourdes? St Francis? Kearney Catholic? Jr is probably going to play for a State Title, and likely will not otherwise. This is what I mean by "attracting".
All of us Public school parents have failed to open up our own pipeline. We have failed to be a part of building something that kids in the area want to be a part of. We have gotten our asses kicked and kicked pretty good.
If we want to change it, we have to start at the Elementary level. We need to do elementary basketball camps 3 nights a week all winter long. We need to haul our 5th graders to Omaha every weekend to play in a basketball league. We have to load them up all spring and summer and go to basketball tournaments...and play in the Gold Division with the best competition we can find. And when they start getting really good, we have to travel farther and go find someone to kick our ass to get better. We as communities and families have to eat sleep and breathe this shit because I can PROMISE you that our Parochial School counterparts are doing exactly that. This is not about scholarships and recruiting. This is about commitment to building something special...something that everyone wants to be a part of. When we have done this, the kids from our surrounding communities will be wanting to come and be a part of it as well. And guys, it works. I have done it. And the teams I have done it with still hold many individual and team records in our public school. These teams all had All State players, college players, and even future HS coaches on them.
Do I believe that Parochial Schools have an advantage? Damn right I do. I believe it is an advantage that they created themselves. I also believe that it is an advantage that we can neutralize and actually overcome, but it is not easy.
As far as a multiplier...I don't really think it will make much difference from D2-D1. D1 to C2, or C2 to C1. I believe that the re-classed teams will likely rise to the top of their new class as well. The other potential re-classifications I really don't know enough about.
Better yet, let's pretend it's easy to convince kids to pay thousands of dollars in tuition, per child to have more stringent social, dress, hair, and behavior rules, far higher academic expectations, to perform (and practice) generally in older facilities with less equipment, etc., etc., etc. Let's further pretend that the neighboring public schools, with the opposite of those factors and free tuition don't have an equal or greater chance at those same kids...
They do turn kids away, if a special education student wants to go there, they turn them away because they can't/won't serve them. That/Those children are absorbed by the public school and counted as part of their number for athletics. Most of these students do not play sports. The schools are smart enough to control there enrolment to stay where they are provide the education/services that makes sense for them.
Do you have an example of a parent of a SPED student wanting to send their kid to a private school and getting turned away? Maybe that does happen. But I would question the judgement of a parent with a SPED child wanting to send that child to a school that does not have the resources or teachers that the child would need. I would want my
child going to a school that has the resources to help my child succeed. This arguement that private schools turn SPED students away doesn't really hold much water.
Of course it doesn't with you, the point is that the private school does not have to take those kids and the public school does and they count the same toward enrolment number for athletics. Special education students are generally not part of athletic teams and the rate of special education in public schools has gone up considerably in the last 20 years. Again, not issues that private schools have to deal with because they don't have to.
They can't serve them because they don't have the teachers and resources to do it. They don't have the state aid luxury that public schools get it that helps them have Sped courses/teachers/rooms etc. It's not controlling enrollment when they are unable to do it.
Even if public schools didn't count them against their numbers you really think private school parents/coaches/administrators would complain as much as public schools parents/coaches/administrators do about all their "disadvantages?"
Doubt it because they don't worry about what others do. They focus their energy on their school and their kids and getting their school and their kids to strive for excellence.
Just google "Private School Multiplier" and I found several articles about other states that instituted them and have basically stated they have had little impact. Though I did find them a year or two ago so not sure if the same articles I read are still up.
Of course they wouldn't, but we won't find out because they are currently on the advantage side of things.
In order to keep things even fairer, I propose that we do away with school sponsored sports, or get rid of all scoreboards.
Public schools already provide transportation and/or mileage to people who ask for it. And yes, I would LOVE to see the free/reduced list and note which kids are on it and compare the cars/phones/boats/and beer budget of their parents to mine. Full disclosure is a GREAT idea.
A Grenier kid in O'Neill had his tuition paid for by Alum/Boosters to attend St. Mary's. Parents couldn't afford it.
I am not saying anything bad about it. It just happened. I think it was a good move for the kid. Seemed like he thrived there.
And you have examples, any, of a student "turned away" by a private school, due to some special need? You're spouting a lot, obviously, about a subject you, apparently, know little. Give up your talking points and go visit.
The Reagan kid from Oneill St Mary's transferred to Oneill High a couple years ago.......Maybe he didn't perform and the private school took his scholarship away.
Once again missing the point, public schools have to accept anyone in the district, regardless and private do not, all kids count equally toward enrollment number, you seem to be getting upset simply because this point is being made, no one has to visit anywhere to understand that private schools have an advantage by being able to control who gets in and numbers.
This is an interesting article showing what each state does for competitive balance in high school sports.
http://highschoolsports.cleveland.c...nal-fight-between-public-and-private-schools/
http://highschoolsports.cleveland.c...nal-fight-between-public-and-private-schools/
I'm not upset. You just have no point. Period. You rail about private schools turning kids away due to special needs, yet you have no examples. No examples. No point.
As I think about this, it really has nothing to do with competitive balance at all. I would guess, and I haven't looked at it closely, that you COULD have a team dominant year in, year out, with a lot of people who apply for free/reduced lunch, a very liberal sped qualifying criteria, etc, and THAT team would never have to move up. This is a bad idea. So typical of bureaucrats and the hypocrisy of certain ideologies. Poor kids with a high sped count dominating is ok, I guess... crazy. Also is it 15 miles road distance? School to school? If it isn't 25 it's pretty hypocritical as well.
Was that Ronald's boy? This is getting old. Time to move on to a productive discussion.
Last edited:
Private schools should play a class up. It is an unfair advantage. While the public schools compete with the players they have in the community, the private schools have rosters with kids from all over. Most of them are not choosing to attend those private schools for the speech team.
Frankly, this sounds like something from the 1980's. Tired, old, innuendo. Ever hear of open enrollemnt? How many kids attending, say, Amherst are from outside their district? I've heard that Maxwell has something like 70%(!) of their students from outside their district. I'm sure with all of this "full disclosure" that not only will I see which kids are classified SPED, but which ones are claimed to be free/reduced lunch by the reporting schools, ultimately we'll see which kids at public schools come from outside the district. As for kids picking private schools "most of them" are choosing for what their parents feel is a better education, higher expectations, and a faith-based environment. Further, I would suggest that the ratio, per capita, of public school kids playing at the next level, is every bit as high as those of the private school kids. So...parents pay tens of thousands of dollars for no real increase of the possibilities of playing college ball? I'm a product of public schools and fully invested in them, but this cry-baby business is just plain goofy. Before open enrollment there might have been a point to the whining. With it? None. Everybody recruits. Only difference is public schools do it with taxpayer funds.
I think most of us are forgetting the number 1 reason people send their kids to private schools: religion. It might be hard for those who don't prioritize religion to understand, (or others refuse to understand because it doesn't argue in their favor), but that's the number 1 reason, even ahead of academics and environment which is 2nd.
